Dana Air is no Indian firm – High Commissioner

When I arrived at the High Commission, I saw many Nigerians at the gate. They were obviously anxious to get visas to go to New Delhi. Why this crowd? There is a humanitarian issue of people in serious health conditions going to India for treatments. To such people, India represents hope of recovery; hope that […]

When I arrived at the High Commission, I saw many Nigerians at the gate. They were obviously anxious to get visas to go to New Delhi. Why this crowd?

There is a humanitarian issue of people in serious health conditions going to India for treatments. To such people, India represents hope of recovery; hope that they will be able to live a normal life after medical intervention in India. It is our endeavour as the High Commission of India to Nigeria to do everything possible within our powers to help such people.

I understand its humanitarian aspect. Why do I say so? It is not the preferred option to have seriously, critically sick person travel 7,000 kilometres through various airports, going through visa, immigration formalities, go to a strange country, hassle with taxi drivers and hotels, adapt to a new situation to seek remedies—it will be far, far better if such intervention was available, closer.

Why do you call it humanitarian? Don’t they pay?

You and us belong to societies where money is not the most important part… driving millions in the country to higher callings. In any case, out of 168 million Nigerians and out  of 1.2 billion Indians, how many of them can benefit from money…few thousands? I sincerely believe that we should not think in terms of financial accruals. There might be macro or micro ways but they may not be drivers in this case. It is the health of a sick person that drives this and that recovery is the human issue to me.

What is that spectacular thing New Delhi did that it became a big attraction to Nigerians?

Let me begin by telling you that we have done nothing! We have not promoted India as a medical destination. Is there notice anywhere saying come to Indian High Commission, Go to India, Regain Your Health? Is there anything? Has there been any seminar, workshop, paid-for-dinners, glossy publications that you have come across saying We Want You to Come to India and Gain Health? We have not done any of these hypes.

To put it differently, what is healthy about it, it is all the word of mouth. Some satisfied patients—one person returning after regaining his health tells another. And that is how, over the past three or four years, India has earned its reputation in Nigeria as a popular destination. In fact, the destination of choice for medical tourism for the sick people!

With the coming of facilities like Primus Super Specialty Hospital in Abuja, we hoped that this crave to go to India would reduce. But the urge is still there. Is this facility really giving what it has to give?

What Primus has achieved in the past two years of its existence, to me is important in two ways: one bringing Indian medical facilities closer to Nigerian patients; bringing state-of-the-art healthcare to Nigerian patients close to them.

Second, I hoped what Nigeria’s first super speciality hospital will achieve is to prove that this can be done in Nigeria. Prove that Nigeria was not condemned to always having to send its seriously ill patients outside the country by putting a new paradigm in quality healthcare. It was creating a precedent, to prove to every one of the stakeholders that there was no reason that Nigeria could not have state-of-the-art healthcare facilities. And I think on all this accounts, the experiment of Primus Super Specialty Hospital has been a qualified success.

So when will it improve so you stop having Nigerians by your gate in the name of going to India?

The role of the ambassador or High Commissioner is to be facilitator. India already has very strong credentials as a partner in Nigerian healthcare. Our pharmaceuticals are best selling in Nigeria. In other words, more than a third of pharmaceuticals either come from India or are assembled in Nigeria from India by Indian or Nigeria-Indian companies.

We, through primus [hospital] have brought Indian healthcare close to Nigeria and this paradigm shift should not be seen only in bilateral context. I believe there are thousands of Nigerian doctors abroad, in western countries who are highly specialized but unable to return to Nigeria because there are no state-of-the-art specialized facilities for them. Hospitals like primus proved that this can be done and if they wish to…it is possible for them to return and set up similar facilities and give specialized healthcare to critically ill Nigerian patients.

It has also proved to Indian healthcare providers that if one relatively small Indian healthcare provider can do it, they can do it too.

Now, as people wishing to go to India for medical tourism, you will appreciate that the High Commission, having taken them as humanitarian cases cannot suddenly say “don’t come here! You have primus, don’t go to India”. I don’t think it will be right. It is left to the choice of the patient and his well wishers, his relatives to think of what to do that will be of the best interest of the patient.

Don’t you think it is because primus is not giving what they want?

I’m no body to say that sir. It is for the applicant for visa to decide. Earlier, he had no choice. Now he has a choice and that is significant. It is for him to decide.

Apart from Nigerians going for medical care, do we have Nigerians going to India to offer medical services?

A number of Nigerian doctors, paramedics go to India to upgrade their skills. For example, Apollo Hospital, the largest hospital group in India has arranged to invite nearly 100 doctors and paramedics from the Ahmadu Bello University medical hospital in Zaria to go to India to see for themselves and upgrade their skills and many have already gone. If some of them decide to stay and practice, perhaps it will be possible.

What makes it difficult to secure a visa? Every time, the crowd is there.

There is absolutely no difficulty. Please, don’t judge Indian High Commission by the stereotypes that you have about some foreign missions in this country—being difficult.

In 2011, we provided 33,000 visas to Nigerians. The number had gone up by 40 percent over previous year’s, 2010. So once the documentation is correctly submitted, visas are issued. There are very few rejections. And the number would not have been going up by this rapid rate…we want to have every Nigerian applicant have the satisfaction of being interviewed by Indians at the diplomatic mission. It is to reduce the lag, it is to give personalized service.

And the crowd you see is not of people who are rejected for visas. They are the applicants and due to heavy rush of applicants, they often have to wait. We are going to interview them and find out whether there are some who have been unfairly disallowed for visa or have to come three or four times. I don’t think we have such cases.

You mentioned a stereotype. There is another one that unqualified Indians come to Nigeria and operate as high-rated professionals in medicine, engineering and the like.

[Long silence] Well, I have not come across such general insinuation before. This will carry more weight if there were specific instances. Nearly four years that I have been here, I have not come across even one case where an Indian has been caught masquerading as a professional in Nigeria without being qualified to do so.

If Nigerian companies or Nigerian-based foreign companies pay lucrative salaries to Indian professionals from IT experts to doctors, from engineers to chartered accountants, bankers, insurance experts—are they doing so on the false pretext? Are they paying unknowingly? That hundreds of such professionals are not properly equipped through training, through professional competence? I don’t think Nigerian companies employers and foreign companies and their employers are so gullible as to have these people here who are not qualified. I cannot agree with this stereotype specifically as no proof has been given.

This came because it was said that a patient went to primus hospital, she was diagnosed with fibroid, she was opened up, the fibroid was not removed and she was asked to go. This has been given as an instance of non professionals coming to operate as professionals.

You have spoken on this matter with qualified people in the hospital. You also spoke with Mr Nitin Dewan, the MD of the hospital on this matter. And they have a different take on this complaint. I believe this complaint was made to Medical Council of Nigeria, was provided with substantive and credible proof that the concerned patient was operated, given partial relief because some of the fibroids, I understand were too big to be operated at that stage. It could have endangered her life. Therefore, she was prescribed medicines to shrink them. And when they have shrunk, she could have been operated again to reduce the danger and to treat her fully. This is what I believe primus has submitted with documentary evidence and I believe medical council has accepted their defence.

What is the volume of Indian investment in Nigeria?

It is difficult to have precise figures because Indian investors don’t necessarily keep us posted. But we believe the investment is quite substantive. Among the largest investors so far in Nigeria is Airtel which took over Zain Mobile network in 2010 for around $4 billions. It has made significant investment in the country to upgrade the network since.

Among other major investments underway right now is Nugajinus fertilisers. They are setting up $2.4 billion gas to Uriah project in Koko in Delta Stat. We also have a similar project of $2 billion investment by Indorama at Port Harcourt. So you can imagine—Indian investors have taken interest in Nigeria and investing here.

It is alleged  that some Indian companies ship fake products into Nigeria.

I know you are trying to be provocative! But these insinuations will carry weight if substantive specific proofs were to be given. For my own part, I can tell you that Indian products have been faked but not by Indians. Indian products are trusted by Nigerian consumers for good quality to cost matrix.

And therefore, a counterfeiter or faker finds it profitable to fake them. If he fakes a product which is not popular, he will not be able to sell it. But by faking a product that is tested and is popular, he hopes to succeed in making a quick buck.

Dana has been in diverse businesses in Nigeria. If you go to a pharmaceutical shop, it’s Dana; go to buy a car, it’s Dana; go to board an aircraft, it’s Dana. It’s a big name in Nigeria. Government has suspended Dana’s airline operations permit because of the last Sunday tragedy. What is your reaction to this?

Frankly, you are asking me questions about specific companies. It is not the High Commissioner’s job to defend specific companies. I’m here to defend India. If you talk to me about Indians selling fake products, I will defend India. But if you say Dana is substandard, Dana is not an Indian company. It is not an Indian group.

The owner of Dana Group, Mr Ramish Hashakirimani is ethnically an India but he was born in Cotonou [Benin Republic]. He has lived in Lagos 60 odd years and his links to India are only ethnic [phone call interrupted].

You were saying Dana Group isn’t Indian company.

There is need to distinguish between companies that originate from India and…there are multinationals based in India like Airtel, like Tata and companies that are Nigerian but run by ethnic Indians. Ethnic Indians are here for more than hundred years. For example Chanrai celebrated their 100th anniversary two years ago, Chellarams, Hathramanis, Kishranis—all these groups have been here for decades. They are Indians as ethnic groups but they might not be Indians by nationality. So one has to make a distinction.

India rose from grass to glory. What do you think Nigeria has failed to do to rise like India?

We are two brotherly countries. You have been kind enough to praise Indian healthcare system. But we have also a lot of challenges to meet. It is only this year that we could celebrate a polio free year and our name was taken off the polio endemic countries. We have many similar challenges under the Millennium Development Goals etc. So I don’t believe that India and Nigeria are different and I don’t arrogate to myself the role of dispensing advice to Nigeria. Nigeria has huge number of very competent physicians with able administrators and healthcare experts…

Of course, you are a large country and situations such as poor healthcare are legacies of underdevelopment, lack of education, lack of sanitation and they are no miraculous solutions…

What is it that binds Indians and Nigerians? There are many Indians in Nigeria.

India and Nigeria are brotherly countries that share common colonial history and a number of societal attributes. We are both developing countries. We have large populations. We are multi-ethnic, multi-religious societies and we are functioning democracies. Our endeavour is to develop our societies, to create wealth without undermining the strong social fabrics and sense of tolerance that we have for members of our societies. We also want to be modern without abandoning our social, historical legacies.

We have been collaborators extensively in the past and this collaboration is gaining momentum. For example, India opened its diplomatic mission in Lagos two years before Nigeria became independent. We didn’t wait for Nigeria to be independent when we opened an outpost in Lagos in November 1958 because we wanted to express our solidarity with Nigeria’s aspirations for nationhood. Our Prime Minister, Sarvepalli Radhakrishnen was among the first leaders to pay a state visit to Nigeria in 1962. The countries have not looked back since post independent Nigeria. Seven of the 14 presidents of Nigeria were trained in India as military officers. Half of Nigeria’s presidents had some personal engagements with Indian.

We are today, Nigeria’s second largest trading partner with total trade of over $16 billion. India was largest investor in Nigeria in 2010 with the entry of Airtel which alone invested $4 billion in taking over Zain network in Nigeria.

There have been other major investments planned in the country. To other reckoning, there are approximately hundred Indian companies with their footprints in Nigeria. These include India-based companies such as Tata, …NIIT. Then you have Nigerian-Indian companies—companies that are operated by ethnic Indians based in Nigeria. And then there are others. There is large number of Indian professionals in various capacities working in all sectors of Nigeria. For example, all Nigerian banks rely on Indian software. There is also major presence of Indian professionals in Nigeria’s telecom sector and so on. We are privileged to be market leader and in very important segments such pharmaceuticals, steel, IT etc.

On the other side, Nigerians have been increasingly visible in India. There is hardly any football club in India hat does not have Nigerian players. And there is increasing presence of Nigerian students and medical tourists in the country.