Ekwueme: I don’t support sovereign national conference – PDP has been hijacked

Weekly Trust: You will be 80 next month. How does it feel?   I am grateful to God for keeping me until now. I feel truly blessed, because when I look back at my class of 25 from King’s College, there are only nine of us left. I am looking forward to it, though I […]

Weekly Trust: You will be 80 next month. How does it feel?

 

I am grateful to God for keeping me until now. I feel truly blessed, because when I look back at my class of 25 from King’s College, there are only nine of us left. I am looking forward to it, though I have not done as much as I would have loved to.

Dr. Alex Ekwueme: Why do you say you have not done as much as you would have loved to?

I said I was grateful for the opportunity to serve Nigeria as the first Vice President. I returned in 1979 after 13 years of military rule. That is an opportunity that many Nigerians have not had, but I don’t feel I have done as much as I would have loved to.

In 1998 I pioneered the founding of the People’s Democratic Party (PDP). I sought for the party’s presidential ticket twice in 1999 and 2003 but Gen Olusegun Obasanjo was nominated in both instances.

As a vice president, there is not much you can accomplish as against being president. I had big dreams for Nigeria and would have liked to fulfill them.

Is being president the only avenue you would have had to actualize those dreams?

Well, you can advice, but as they say the bulk stops on the president’s table.

In this system, for instance, the policy on free and compulsory education up to a certain level is something that the president or governor has the final say especially with something like implementing cost in the budget. So, unless I am in such a position there is a limit to how much I can do on such a matter. It is the same with other sensitive issues. There is a limit to how much you can do no matter how good your intentions or ideas are, except you are president.

You had a successful profession, what was your attraction to politics?

The major attraction was to make a difference to the masses.

To make life comfortable for the average Nigerian. It was easy to do that from government than from the private sector.

Why do you think former President Shehu Shagari chose you to be his Vice?

It is very difficult to say. The rule of the NPN (National Party of Nigeria) then was for Anambra and Imo to produce the Vice President; the North would produce the presidential candidate and Cross River the party chairman.

A committee was set up, and nominations made. We had the convention in Yaba in 1978. Because I knew the committee was working I tried to avoid them.

So on December 24th, I went with my family to Cameroon and the next day we went to Nairobi for Christmas and returned on the 28th by which time the committee should had finished it job. It did not. The members eventually did and submitted their report. Nothing happened until January 28th. At the meeting they said Imo and Anambra should nominate one person each. Anambra voted me and Imo voted my friend Nwankwo.

The next day we moved on up to Benue State boundary after Obolafor. As we were about to take our leave, Shagari called me aside and said he would like me to be his running mate, but that I should keep it to myself.

I went back to London for my graduation for my law degree. While there I got a call asking me to come back here ‘now, now, now.’ I asked what the matter was and the person said ‘I have told you, just jump on the plane and get back here tomorrow’. So, I abandoned the graduation ceremony and came back to Lagos.

It was then announced that I had been selected as running mate.

We worked well together and Shagari was a gentleman who wanted the best for Nigeria.

You became VP less than 10 years after Nigeria’s civil war; what did that say about Nigeria and did you feel pressure from the Igbos about being Shagari’s vice?

There was no such pressure. People who were in the NPN from that part of the country were people who came into the picture and were able to participate in politics. Those who felt there was the need to have an all encompassing party came from all parts of the country. They were not the kind of people to suggest that I was dinning with the enemy.

Did you sense some rivalry between you and Ojukwu especially as he never won an election but was part of the NPN?

Ojukwu was in Ivory Coast at the time in 1977 and it was the government of Shagari in which I was an active participant that decided to grant him pardon. It will not be immodest if I said I contributed to his return. Something many do not know is that Ojukwu and I were friends from childhood. The matter of winning an election is one thing as there is a difference between popularity and acceptance. Acceptance is what gives leadership in a constructive democratic situation.

You came into office at the time Abuja was barely starting. As an architect, did you have any influence over what Abuja has become today?

Not at the level of direct consultation, but naturally the government is there to supervise development. We started the movement to Abuja and then we were being criticized to be in too much of a hurry by opposing political parties, particularly the UPN. Now with a bit of hindsight I would say it was a wise thing. But for the tempo with which we started, Babangida would not have been able to move here when he did and development would not have been this fast. The water we drink in Abuja today is what we provided then.

Many describe Abuja as a pool of corruption. What is your take on this?

I don’t agree that it is a pool of corruption. If it is described as such then they must be referring to those who are eating out of it. Accusing the government to be a pool of corruption is a tall order. Naturally, I would love to see more transparency in the public and private sectors.  If we reduce the use of cash and operate a system that is easier to trace movement of funds, this will help curb corruption. Most transactions should be by documents and involving a small amount of cash.

Commissions that banks charge on transactions should then be used as tax for government as commissions are imposed on turnover. It is really unfair for banks to collect your money and keep and turn around to trade with it. I absolutely support the cashless policy and believe that Nigerians will eventually understand it if it is put to practice.

What would you say your achievements are for the Igbos and national unity?

I’m not sure if I’m the right person to answer this question. In fostering unity I can give an example. In February (1999) when we were to have the PDP convention in Jos many didn’t know that the national executive committee of the party had passed a resolution as far back as November in 1998 to the effect that anybody who doesn’t win his local government area in the December election will not qualify to run for governorship or presidency.  I had a copy of that resolution in my pocket. So if I wanted to be difficult I would have raised it in Jos because of all those who contested I had the highest number of votes. Even President Obasanjo did not win his ward, let alone his local government area or state.

I decided that my personal ambition should not over rule national interest. So I did all I could to support Obasanjo. I did not work as Vice President to serve any particular interest.

For instance, when about seven new states were created in 1976 we moved from 12 states to 19 and Obasanjo gave funds to those states. I noticed that all of the states were given except Imo. When I was going through it, I insisted that it be corrected. Also, when federal polytechnics were to be built across the country, six were done, apart from Yaba College of Technology which was already in existence. New ones were built in the states which had been newly created.

Again Imo was left out. I pointed it out and a federal polytechnic was built in Afikpo, now in Ebonyi State. These were some of the deliberate discriminations we tried to correct in a democratic system.

Second, we saw that for public servants, who happened to be on the other side of the divide during the war because they were pushed over from working for Federal Government departments and were caught up and they didn’t come back to Nigeria because they were serving in enclaves, we passed a resolution that those on the Biafran side should be part of their conditions of service.

So all who were in Nigeria before the war was declared had settlements of their service added to their pensions which accrued to 25 per cent to their pension receipts.

In the same way there were nine colleges of education and of the nine, not one was in the whole of eastern Nigeria or in the Mid West. In correcting this, one was built in Cross River. This was how we tried to correct the anomalies in the system at the time.

You were one of the founders of the PDP, would you say the party has lived up to the visions you had for it?

No, for obvious reasons. The people who were not part of the formation of the party and did not have the philosophy or essence which we did for the party came on board and hijacked it. They have used it as a vehicle for achieving power. The conditions that led to its formation have been neglected. It was meant to be a mass movement catering for the welfare of the Nigerian masses so that at any time the average Nigerian on the street could talk about the PDP as it has impacted on his life at all levels, just as a black South African would talk about the ANC.

What are the things about your life that have given you the most satisfaction?

I think being able to help those who have been in need especially those whom when I was given the opportunity as far back as 1965 during the few years of my architectural practice which I began in 1958.

I started a foundation which gave scholarships to students. This was funded by money made from my practice. Through it students were able to go to local universities and secondary schools. If I hadn’t benefited from a scholarship I may not have had a good secondary education.

What is your take on single tenure?

It is something I stand by. If you have single term you know you have a certain number of years to do your work and impact on society, You will devote your energies to doing that well and making a place for yourself in history.

With the two terms we have, the first is spent on how to accomplish your second, because it will be disgraceful if you are defeated after one term.

Then on the basis of governing concept, it makes competition grow faster. At the presidential level for instance if we had six/five-year term, which would be 30 years during which every zone would have had a shot at the presidency, this period would be regarded as a period of reconstruction during which we try to build a nation.  To do elections every four years is a waste of resources which could be applied to constructive ends for Nigerians.

With Nigeria’s current security challenges, many have said Nigeria is at the edge of precipice. Do you think the current state of affairs will lead us there?

I pray not. I’m not an advocate of sovereign national conference, but I am an advocate of national dialogue where we can sit down and discuss our problems and proffer solutions that will bring changes for a better and more tolerant Nigeria.

Why don’t you think SNC is good idea?

Sovereign is where there is a vacuum and you want the conference to be the take-off point for a new system. I don’t think we should talk about it in Nigeria with the legislature and judiciary in place. If we have a conference and decide what we want, then what agencies will be put in place to implement those decisions?

In the midst of Nigeria’s development issues is the leadership question. Why do you think we have not been able to get the right leaders to move Nigeria forward 50 years after independence?

We are operating a democratic system; the right leader is the person whom we vote for. Unfortunately, in our democracy it’s not always the best person who is voted for. In a country like America, I don’t think an honest person would put George Bush (Jnr.) against Al Gore at an intellectual level.

The main factor that influences people’s choice of a leader is not always objective and based on competence and intellectual capacity and other such qualities. All these factors infringe on the election process and translate in votes. The person who has the highest votes is not necessarily the best person.

When Igbos say they are marginalized, is that a justified stance for them to take?

I think those who say so have given credence to justify their statements. Even looking at the geo-political zone, it is only the south east that has five states. Most of the states were created by the military by decree and at the time we were not in a position to dictate how states should be created. It is the same thing with the local governments.

Before Kano was divided into Kano and Jigawa, they had as many local government areas in the state as they had in the south east. Because again the military era had reason to award to states and then the number of states are all factors in the federal allocation process to the states. Which means the resources available to area wit few states are limited compared to those with more number of states.

How were you able to achieve peace in your time as vice president?

Shagari was a man of peace. He believed in fairness, justice and equity. He didn’t discriminate among states governed by opposing parties. At one time there was a situation where people said they will not put the president’s photograph in public places but rather Chief Awolowo’s. He took it all in its stride.

The question of Igbo leadership came up again when Ojukwu died. Do you think that with people like you around such a question should arise?

Anybody is fit to say what they want, but I know that the Igbos have never sat down to anoint anybody as their leader. The closest to that will be the Ohaneze Ndi’Igbo. Emeka Ojukwu was leader of Biafra, first governor of Eastern Nigeria and during Biafra he was regarded as head of state of Biafra. In that regard you could say that he was the Igbo leader. During the war, this was the enclave that was left in the Igbo heartland, but outside this time of war, I don’t know anyone else who was said to be Igbo leader. As Vice President of Nigeria it wouldn’t be immodest for me to say I was a Nigerian leader of Igbo extraction.

You are from Oko?

Yes.

Jim Nwobodo refused to tar the road to your village, saying it was a federal project. Would you say it was political or contempt?

(Laughter) Not refused to. He jumped on to it and wanted to tar it when the Federal Government was already doing it after awarding the contract to a local contractor. I advised him that if he had surplus money, he should use it to build other roads instead of spending it on Federal road.

What would you like to see done differently in Nigeria?

I’d like to see Nigerians working together as Nigerians so that we can be a nation and one that keeps records and has statistics. With statistics we can have meaningful planning.