Forfeited loot kept in CBN consolidated revenue account — Bolaji Owasanoye

Where are the recovered  fund now? The recovered loot is held in an account with the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) and even where there is no court case, the money is held there, if there is a court case the money is still kept there and also if there is a judicial process and […]

Where are the recovered  fund now?

The recovered loot is held in an account with the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) and even where there is no court case, the money is held there, if there is a court case the money is still kept there and also if there is a judicial process and when the money is finally forfeited to the government it is moved to the consolidated revenue account and it will be properly appropriated. It cannot be spent in the middle of the way because the records will be there, that is the first thing, when it is subject to interim forfeiture it is not money that you can spend, it is not money for spending, it is money that will ultimately be subject to judicial determination. Though we have found the money there and the guy may have no defence but we still have to wait until the final judicial process.

 What about recovered assets?

One of the things we tried to do is that if it is a physical asset, may be a car or house, in the past it deteriorated,  now a lot of ships were seized and some of them have become wrecks, we have introduced a completely different system to manage such assets. There is an  inter- agency committee that is set up, where it is a perishable asset, we value it and we still involve the court there, and you can dispose the asset at a court auction. It is not underhand and then the revenue from there can go into that account with the Central Bank of Nigeria in some situations where it is finally forfeited to government,  government can assign it to a government agency to use, so that is the process. Some of the process that has been established in recent times is to establish an asset tracing team under the Ministry of Finance to reconcile all the recovered asset so that we do not rely on newspaper details which may be inadequate, so we do some formal reconciliation. What category of funds , and where are they kept and all that because anti corruption agencies do their work and another agency must step in.

What is the difference between tracking and tracing, are they the same?

 They are two different things, but they are very close to each other. Tracking is what ways have we been losing money, you cannot stop what you do not see, so with illicit financial flows, we need to track it. What are we losin g to tax evasion, trade mis pricing, over invoicing and under invoicing,  which sort of areas are most prone to this sort of thing, so when you track you can stop the illicit flow. Now for tracing, the asset tracing job is to take a look at all the assets recovered by all the anti corruption agencies,  not audit but to ensure that they are properly kept. Which one is under interim forfeiture and which one is under final forfeiture, all that records are done so that government has a clear record.

It has been suggested that women are less corrupt and that they should be made to manage the recovered loot, what is your take?

 The truth of the matter is that men and women are prone to corruption so I do not agree that women are less corrupt. A woman can steal more than what 200 men could steal.  What we want to do is that we do not create the opportunities for this to happen, anyone who occupy certain offices where the systems and the structures are not strong enough everybody is vulnerable and prone to this, we have got to make sure that it is the system and the structure that will ensure that whatever may be your own weaknesses and propensity do not make you break the rules.

Can you say how much money has been recovered? 

I cannot do that. It has to be properly reconciled. The final figure and answer must come from Ministry of Finance who will cross check and look at the categorization. You have to go to the Ministry of Finance any other thing will be speculative , we cannot get the answer from newspapers,  you won’t solve the problem.

 PACAC is two years old and to what extent have you been able to achieve your mandate?

We have done our work as best as we can as a think tank we have assisted government to design strategies towards implementing its own programme and agenda.  I think what people will say is that if you are not seeing people thrown in jail, and count how many people have been convicted but there are so many other areas of success  like assets recovery, systems improvement,  institutional strengthening and capacity building all these are included in our first year report. Since then till now we have done a lot more forcing those key stakeholders to introspect on their role and take corrective measures like the recent conference that we had in Abuja. So we have a clear cut and deliberate agenda so that once we do it the agencies who would implement would be sensitized. The next thing for us is to watch and make sure that some of these things happen.

What are PACAC’s challenges?

Usually when you fight corruption, there is a resistance and corruption will fight back.  Secondly there is often no unanimity in the approach,  you have three arms of government and three levels of government – executive legislature and judiciary, who have different approaches to fighting corruption but ultimately there will be a convergence, it is a question of time before everybody would agree. The good thing is that there is no arm of government or level of government that want to celebrate corruption, everybody will tell you that we know it is bad and it has affected us , the point of difference is how we should deal with it. Some prefer to say that it was bad and we should never do it again but let us forget it and start moving on, some will say no there must be accountability for the things that has happened and put us where we are so we have to evaluate and make up your mind that can you truthfully and fully improve the system without sanction and enforcement. If people can feel that they can say sorry and get away with it and live happily thereafter will anything change? So we would ultimately reach a convergence in how to approach but the intentions are understood. In terms of what we see as  future, the strategy document that we supported the Federal Ministry of Justice to finalise and to adopt set a road map as to what each of the agencies should be doing in terms of sustainability, we are actually a think tank and we think through what is happening bring forward what needs to happen and then leave those who should take it forward to take it forward. That is our job.

Professor Sagey has said that the judiciary was not on board in the fight against corruption. I did not get what he meant?

I do not in fact fully agree with him. I think in fact that he is right in the sense that yes we have not fully converged in terms of way forward and I said it that there is no unanimity in the approach, the executive, legislature and judiciary will have their own way to approach corruption. Federal will have, states will have and the local government councils will  also have different approaches to fighting corruption but we are working to a convergence.

Secondly things are often slow on the side of the judiciary, we can say the same on the side of prosecution, to say that the prosecution has not got its acts together and it will be fair because there are avoidable mistakes that we can point at that has been made but the good thing is there is a conversation and as he has said we would help ourselves to see that this is in our common interest. Good this is also that everybody agrees that we must deal with corruption so the next major conversation is the best and the most profitable approach forward that will really send the message forward in accordance with our own laws because if the laws prescribes process of enforcement we cannot side step them, we should not.