I am ready to fight over revenue allocation –Dr Junaidu

You convened a meeting in Abuja recently at which you discussed a lot of things, including security and other important national issues. Why did it take this long, almost a year after Boko Haram became a security issue, before you convened the meeting? In the first place, the facts at my disposal then to differ […]

You convened a meeting in Abuja recently at which you discussed a lot of things, including security and other important national issues. Why did it take this long, almost a year after Boko Haram became a security issue, before you convened the meeting?

In the first place, the facts at my disposal then to differ from the imputation of the question, as far as I am concerned, the Boko Haram issue did not start a year ago. Secondly, I do not hold any government position now and I haven’t held any for the past 10 years; so how do I convene the meeting? I did not appoint myself nor did I appoint leader of the north or part of the north. What I did was simply to show my concern as a citizen, as a patriotic Nigerian, to really rub minds with people who have the same concern and who are worried at the direction the country is heading, at the type of lawlessness which has engrossed not only the Boko Haram or other people miscreant, but also the government itself. I am a firm believer in the Rule of Law and I will not support directly or by implication anything which is against the law of the country so long there is such a law.

One of the issues raised at the meeting is the awkward revenue sharing formula; why do you argue that the revenue sharing formula does not favour the north.

First of all, there has to be certain concept on the basis on which you decide how much revenue you give to who, we call it quantitative weight. For example, there is the issue of equality of citizenship and equality of state. There is also the issue of education which is the basic human right, according to the national system; there is also the issue of healthcare; there is also the issue of certain investments, ports, railways, airports, seaports, all those developments necessary for survival are all supposed to be part and parcel of the grand design on the basis of which you now build revenue allocation. In Nigeria, that is not done. When Olusegun Obasanjo came to power, he tried to bribe members of the National Assembly, the majority of whom then and now are northerners. Initially, he had his own agenda and he used the governors of the oil producing states to give him the surplus money they had to use as bribe. The members of the House tried to reflect the anger against Obasanjo nationwide and even took the money inside  Ghana-Must-Go bags and took it to the National Assembly to show the world. That was killed but then the governors whose money was used to bribe members of the House and Senate for purposes of Third Term now said that one has failed, we have our own plan, we have a new allocation formula were we will give 13% of oil revenue and we call it a derivation principle. In the first place, even if you want to give them 13% derivation, it is only produced under their soil but now they are given whether it is import duty, customs duty or whatever it is, they get 13% automatically. That is absolutely irresponsible and being careless. Secondly, the oil itself, if you are going to base it, the oil formula has to be dichotomised. Oil is produced on land, which the oil producing states have a right to it, but oil produced offshore, in the sea, the sea itself belongs to the whole Nigeria. Over 70% of the oil is a common heritage for all Nigerians and we are also responsible for protecting it because it is the navy which protects it. If it belongs to the state, then it is necessary for them to have their own navy. Now, if you look at the constitution, the shore line in the sea, the exclusive economic zone we call it, belongs to the whole Nigeria, they have no right to 70% of the principle they are claiming. They claim 13% and now they are saying we are the ones producing the oil and the whole oil money should come to us. Because Obasanjo was such a scoundrel, dishonest, he was prepared to let them have anything because his own gold was to remain president for life. His agenda failed but they succeeded and that is why we are now in this situation.

Critics say the North is shouting wolf because the area has not developed its potentials. What have you to say about this?

This is a typical argument from illiterate of illiterates. Development entails investment, investment entails money. So what it means in simple economic term is that if you have the money to invest, that investment will bring you development and also create avenue for you to further invest and further develop. The north never had the money to develop so what are you talking about? Are you saying that it is our fault we don’t have money? So please when we hear some of these arguments of illiterates down south, don’t drop to their own level and start talking nonsense. We know how development occurs in the south, it is mostly bank money and that is why every regime has had to restore the banking system because it has been bastardised by people from the south. How many people in the north have been involved with failed banks; tell me one family in the south which has not been involved with failed banks. It is like examination fraud, who are the fraudsters in exams they cheat in exam, they go and get some bogus degrees and they come and say they are educated, they are developed. Is that what we call development? Development my foot! Just forget about them. I have gone to school with southerners and none of them has beaten me in an exam, so what is so special? What you are talking about? Are we saying that because I don’t cheat, my degrees are worthless or what? If you give anybody the opportunity to excel, he will excel; if you deny even the best brain the opportunity to do well, he will not do well. Many of the boys who are now beggars were never given the opportunity to do anything, and now you are blaming us, you say we are nothing but beggars. Or any day their tribal sentiment comes up, they put them in trucks from Lagos and come and drop them in Kano. Is this a human society? But when our businessmen like Dangote go there to build factories for them, they don’t treat them badly.

How are you looking at the agitation by some Nigerians for the convocation of a Sovereign National Conference?

We want the National Assembly to enact the law immediately so that we can commence the process of convening the Sovereign National Conference; let us see who will win and who will lose. And let me tell you, any part of Africa or any part of the world that has 72% of the landmass we have in the North, 62% of the population of this country is in the North, if anybody imagines that somehow we are going to be reduced to nothing or some people are going to lord it over us because they think they have oil; oil they did not plant, they did not work for, most of the people that work in the oil producing areas are not indigenes of the area; they are other Nigerians who went there to work and to make the oil flow. If that is what they want, good luck! The north will sail on its own. And in the event of Nigeria breaking up, the north will remain one entity with Abuja its capital because if you start going from Abuja down, you have another 340 kilometres before you reach the border between the north and the south so you can live quite alright a landlocked country but a very comfortable country that is well managed. I see no benefit coming to us from this oil, what you pay for oil here in Kano is what you pay for in Niger and Chad. So what is the benefit? The poverty level we have is at par with that of Niger, Mali, Burkina Faso and Chad. What are they telling us? So if they want to break the country, fine. We will have Abuja our headquarters and if all the basic clusters of assets we have in Nigeria were to be destroyed, the oil will take one and a half decades before they are back in production. Lagos will collapse because everything about Lagos is built on speculation in currency. Abuja is solid investment there and let me tell you, if they all go out, we will make Abuja to be our capital and to be a very powerful capital not the kind of nonsense we now have. As far as I am concerned, nobody should be afraid of the breakup of this country and, in fact, the challenge is let us start now because to have a Sovereign National Conference, you must get rid of the president and the vice president, get rid of the Senate and the House of Representatives, the same thing with the governors and others.

If you look at the so-called Sovereign National Conferences, all the countries that tried that in Africa were Francophone countries and I will give you the typical examples of those who did it and took it very seriously. They are Niger Republic, Republic of Benin, DR Congo and Congo Brazzaville. They held it; they said it will bring peace, stability, regularise an even system and so on and so forth. At the end of the day, each of these countries that held the national conference had coup d’etats. They had coups, not once, not twice. Niger has had two coups and three attempted coups, Benin Republic has had two, DR Congo not only had a coup d’état, in fact, they had a revolution. So, as far as I am concerned, it is not the best solution to our national problem but that is not to say I am against it. I want it; let it be now, let us begin now because if you tell the north now that we have the conference tomorrow, we are ready, we have our men I can tell you, we are not going to be taken for a ride.

You said you are prepared for the conference; what exactly are you taking to such a conference?

I am not the one agitating for a Sovereign National Conference; it is the South-West and the errand boys they have like Pat Utomi, the South-East and the others in the oil producing areas. They are the ones you should ask. If they are going to have a Sovereign National Conference, what will be the benchmark? What are the parameters? What will be the mode of presentation? Are you saying that I, from Kano, with eleven and a half million people should have the same representation with somebody in Yenagoa with a population of less than 250,000? And also what will happen to the governors of the country, if you are calling for a Sovereign National Conference? It means nobody has any powers; there is no president, no National Assembly, no House of Representatives and no members of Houses of Assembly. If you want that, then tell us who will govern the nation while we are taking a shot of ourselves at the National Assembly. So, if you ask what are we going to take, I will not tell you that but I can tell you off head the agenda of the north and it is going to be irreversible. The moment the Sovereign National Conference begins, we will demand that we abrogate the revenue allocation formula and the hypocrisy. So it is going to be, not only an intellectual argument, but also a physical argument and no mistake about it. Formerly, they were abusing us, trying to blackmail us that we are afraid, now we say, yes, we want a Sovereign National Conference and since they are the ones demanding for it, let them tell us what they want and we will also tell them what we want.

In the event, the conference finally holds, will you support a breakup of the country?

The question of whether Nigeria stays or breaks up is not going to be my own agenda. The question is those agitating for the conference should tell us; if they say they want to break up, then we say these are the conditions and so also if they want the country to stay as one. Whichever way, there must be conditions and those conditions must be met before we continue to talk about Nigeria.

Only two governors attended your Abuja meeting. Does that mean your idea was not taken seriously?

Are you telling me that I went and discussed the ideas with governors before they came to the meeting? What I did was, I sent people I thought had a similar thinking with me who are tired of blackmail and I sent invitation to only four governors, others, too, will be asked in due course because we are not running cult. We are not running a secret society; if they feel they can come and join us, then let them come.

Who are the four governors?

Sule Lamido, Babangida Aliyu, Ibrahim Shema, Aliyu Wamako and Murtala Nyako, all of them said they were going to come. Wammako has just been sworn in, Nyako was earlier sworn in, Shema was sick, so two came. But what is wrong, even if they didn’t come? Can’t I speak for Kano or any other part of the north? So what if only two governors came? If the north wants to take its destiny in its hands, then it is up to the governors to decide if they want to be with the people or they want to be with the PDP. If they want to come along, fine and if not, we take the destiny into our hands. How many governors are with Boko Haram today? None, but are you saying that Boko Haram does not exist because there is no governor who is their member? So, please forget about this archaic syndrome. This time around the northerners are determined to take their destiny and nothing will stop them, nothing!

You set up a number of committees after the meeting. What are you going to do with the outcome of these committees’ reports?

The committees’ reports will be acted upon, we are not government where reports of committees are put in the shelves and forget about them and gather dust. If the committees decided they want to make them public, then so be it.

How do you intend to sell the idea of this new project to northern governors and other stakeholders in the north?

Before we even met, the governors met and rejected the revenue allocation formula, they don’t need to be told anything, they have the responsibilities of running their governments, they realised no matter how prudent they are, the revenue allocation is not sustainable and I have been saying that for the past 11 years. If we are lucky somebody will come and remove the nonsense, if not, that can lead us into another war and I am ready to fight a war for revenue allocation. Let’s see how they maintain the oil, let’s see how they move the oil out of the country, let’s see how they provide security especially in Abuja where they come and start talking nonsense.

What will you say of the insinuations that President Goodluck Jonathan might have had a hand in the meeting you convened?

This is nonsense, I have been in public life and politics for over 35 years and nobody has so far accused me of being sponsored by anybody and I will come now and reduce myself to the level of being sponsored by Jonathan.  Jonathan worked under me directly in OMPADEC as an assistant director. But for me, he wouldn’t even been accepted and you are saying that he is the one sponsoring me now. Sponsoring me for what? To cause trouble for his government for what I’m doing? Anyway, what benefit will he get if he sponsors me or what will I derive? Position or money? I have crossed sword with most Nigerian leaders, from Gowon to Obasanjo, Shagari, to Babangida; to Abdulsalam and to Yar’adua. You are telling me all these people were sponsoring me to make trouble or trace such national issues. That is disgusting; it shows the level of decadence in Nigerian politics that everybody does something only for pay, for price and nobody can do it on matters of principle, but I believe that a nation of 150 million people cannot be reduced to the level of insanity whereby everybody is after money. Anyway, those who made the money, where is the money?  It is nowhere, it has vanished. And I tell you, what I am telling you now, if I have the opportunity to talk to Jonathan I will tell him to his face. Some of my good friends are Ijaw but as Ijaw, they have been a national disgrace in government. You have a government where the president is an Ijaw man, the National Security Adviser is an Ijaw man, Chief of Staff, half-Ijaw and so also the Minister  of Petroleum, the woman is also Ijaw. Do you imagine any ethnic group doing that and getting away with it in Nigeria? Nobody will accept that. Now, we have seen how Ijaws handle governance; let’s see what happens when another ethnic group takes over.