Libya now in bigger mess after Ghadaffi – S/African envoy
Weekly Trust: At the moment, South Africa is regarded as one of the biggest economies in Africa. What are you doing to boost Africa’s economy beyond Africa? Amb. Kingsley Mamalobo: We are active participants in NEPAD programmes along with Nigeria and many African countries. NEPAD has outlined a number of projects, which must be built […]
Weekly Trust: At the moment, South Africa is regarded as one of the biggest economies in Africa. What are you doing to boost Africa’s economy beyond Africa?
Amb. Kingsley Mamalobo: We are active participants in NEPAD programmes along with Nigeria and many African countries. NEPAD has outlined a number of projects, which must be built in order to ensure that Africa develops. There are projects like the INGADEM in the Congo, the North to South Connections between Algeria and Nigeria, in terms of energy and infrastructural development. These are like our dreams. South Africa’s policy towards Africa is Africa first. We have an African agenda which says we cannot on our own develop and leave Africa behind. Also, you can’t develop in any way amidst poverty and underdevelopment. It is in our interest to ensure that the rest of Africa develops. We have identified what we believe are crucial countries in the continent, what I would call locomotives; countries which would have the possibility and potential to pull Africa. Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo and Sudan are such countries. Some of these countries may not as of now realised their full potentials, but the possibility that they are capacitated, we work together with them. In the first instance, it is up to those people to realise their potentials. We can make sure that that capacity is realised. By so doing, I tell you, Africa in the next millennium will be above other continents.
Against the backdrop of what you have said, do you see that happening in Nigeria any time soon?
Nigeria has had trajectory. You have moved from the West to where you are now. You may say the pace is not as fast you want, but if you consider the fact that you had military dictatorship and so on and you have now become a democratic country… in spite of all the problems that are there, but again which country doesn’t have problems? Overall you are moving even though you have problems of Boko Haram, fighting corruption and all that. These are basically what other countries also have to deal with. On the whole, there is hope that Nigeria will develop and take its place.
South Africa is a major supporter of Zimbabwe’s President, Robert Mugabe and his policies. Why is it so, given that world leaders are not?
This is misunderstood. South Africa is not in support of anybody. South Africa supports internal solution. We have said that it is important solutions are home-made rather than imposed from outside. This is what we have urged in Zimbabwe. In some cases, we have been opposed to some of these countries who have been opposed to regime changes and get rid of Mugabe and so on. Once you go against that, it is interpreted as support for Mugabe. As for others, we can’t be making those choices. Zimbabweans should be making them.
What about your support for Ghadaffi?
That again was also misunderstood. In line with what I just said; it is not as if we were supporting Ghadaffi. Absolutely not! It was easier taking out Ghadaffi, which is what has been done, but has that solved the problems in Libya? That is not the way to go. Removing him has like in our situation… it did not mean that by removing the apartheid regime. You have got to work towards removing that system. We were saying the same thing with Ghadaffi. If you look at what is happening in Libya now, it is a much bigger mess. You are going to have people killing each other, ethnic and tribal issues and all of that. I don’t know if this has actually helped the situation. In my view it hasn’t. We need to have a proper solution. Solution in my view is taking an inward look, where the Libyans will themselves say we need a national conference of our own. We need to find our own solutions. Many times, we are also influenced by our background. We need to ask ourselves, what will work for South Africa and take the interests of all including the minority to make sure you end conflict on a permanent basis. For a lasting solution, it is necessary to take this step which is what we are encouraging in Libya and Zimbabwe. This does not translate to supporting them.
What is South Africa’s major interest in Nigeria?
We have a very good political relationship with Nigeria’s support during the struggle. Also, our children are students here. We want to develop this relationship to trade and investment as well as people to people relations and to do away with negative perceptions. Our trade relations have increased from 1999 when we started from less than a billion to almost four billion dollars presently.
What sector has made the most input?
About 98 percent of what we get from Nigeria is crude oil and its products. Though Nigerians don’t believe this, but this trade is in your favour. We buy so much of this single product such that in the end the volume of trade is in your favour. However, we are a bit much more diversified than Nigeria. There are many things Nigerians are buying there; from machineries to agricultural products. We have had complains from Nigerians that they do not have the same amount of entry into our markets as we have into theirs. We have tried in the past to resolve this as the bilateral commission has been set up – a committee of five members from both countries – to specially look at this and advise both governments on best ways to invest in both countries. There are obviously more investments coming in from South Africa into Nigeria than from Nigeria into South Africa.
What would you say is responsible for this; because the general complain is that of discrimination for the mere fact that they are Nigerians?
From the point of view of government, government would not make any rules or regulations based on discrimination of any sort. Its regulations cut across board regardless of the nationality. Nigerians operate in this space.
But the attitude of the individuals with whom they are in contact is what Nigerians complain about.
There may be negative perceptions about Nigerians, which you may not find in South Africa and both governments have to combat. The truth is that not all Nigerians are like that. Having said that, we also need to ask where is the source of the perception. There are good and bad Nigerians and the little percentage of the bad is the one flying around and giving this bad perception. I have been in Nigeria and know that this is not true of Nigerians. Perhaps the best way to solve this would have been to bring all the South Africans to Nigeria for them to have first hand experience of Nigerians. There are Nigerians who are playing very positive roles in the development of South Africa. Unfortunately, people sometimes focus on the negative. This is why we encourage person-to-person interaction as a way to correct this impression. We should be able to take the good of Nigeria to South Africa and vice versa to get the people to see a different side of the other. Talking about xenophobia; the source of xenophobia is scarce resources and people have to fight for them. This is something that I believe as Africans we need to come back, as responsible leaders we need to tackle the issue and alleviate the conditions. It can happen anywhere, because we have the factors responsible for xenophobia in many African countries.
The xenophobia was not peculiar to Nigerians but was to everybody who was a foreigner in those areas where they occurred.
I am not aware of how many Nigerians died. Nigerians in South Africa usually don’t live in those quarters and in those conditions. The death of Nigerians during the attack may be a bit exaggerated. In fact, there is an area in South Africa, Hillbrow, with mostly Nigerians leaving there.
Visas still seem to be a problem for Nigerians in spite of the urge to get them to explore businesses invest in South Africa.
When I came, the visa process was chaotic. There were long queues particularly in Lagos whether it is raini8ng or sunny. The media was constantly bashing us, and the way we were treating Nigerians. Sometimes, it could take about three months for passports to be returned. Our target is to get passports back to applicants in five days. Where this fails, it is as a result of staff number, not inefficiency. In the worst cases, they are returned in ten days. So far, we have received commendations for our efforts.
You had a view of Nigeria before your posting here. Has it changed now having spent two years here?
Yes. There were several reports portraying the negative sides of Nigeria and sometimes exaggerated, but if you come here, you find a very pleasant country with very nice people. I was taken aback by the people who greet you on the streets and encourage me when I take walks saying ‘well-done sir’. I have been to 12 states so far and I must say I have enjoyed my stay here. Nigerians are very nice down-to-earth people who are also hard working.