Poll shift will plunge Nigeria into constitutional crisis — Prof Akinyemi

You were the deputy chairman of the recently held national conference. What do you consider as the achievements of the conference? One of the main achievements was that the conference was held and did not break. We were able to hold a national conference in Nigeria without anybody walking out and all the decisions reached […]

You were the deputy chairman of the recently held national conference. What do you consider as the achievements of the conference?

One of the main achievements was that the conference was held and did not break. We were able to hold a national conference in Nigeria without anybody walking out and all the decisions reached were consensus decisions.
Secondly, it was true that there was this controversy over no-go areas, but in actual fact, a committee debated this ‘no-go’ issue of the unity of Nigeria and came up with a charter of reconciliation, of unity, which was not only unanimously adopted at that committee level but also unanimously  adopted at the plenary. So, the conference did debate the unity of Nigeria and came up with a ringing endorsement of the country’s indivisibility. Of course, it is not on a blank cheque, it has to be a federation based on equity, justice, fairplay and equality of all citizens, as well as tolerance of cultural and religious differences. All these were adopted. These, indeed, are major achievements of the conference.

But some people believed that Nigeria did not need the assemblage of people at a national conference to discuss those issues, that the National Assembly with duly elected legislators was in place to do so, and that the whole conference was a waste of time and resources…
My reply to those people is; Why has the National Assembly not discussed those issues? The National Assembly has been in place since 1999, why have they not debated those issues since? Obviously, there was a lacuna. The President had to be convinced about the need for this conference. The President was a latter-day convert. He had earlier said there was no need for the conference and what made him changed his mind was pressure from the people. So, the government was right to put the conference in place.

Now that the government has not acted on the report of the conference since it was submitted, are you not feeling uneasy and embarassed?
I did my own job as Deputy Chairman whose duty was to assist the Chairman, to ensure that Nigerians met, debated and came up with constructive recommendations and we finished our job. We played our part and the conference was successful. It is now left to the government and Nigerians to decide what to do about the report. We got to get it clear in our minds in Nigeria that oftentimes failure of government is our collective failure.
Why do I say this? Government reacts to stimulus. Recently, about 1.5 million people demonstrated in Paris because of 12 people that were killed by terrorists. In Nigeria, I can’t see the millions demonstrating that the abducted Chibok girls be brought back. I can’t see the 1.5 million Nigerians asking that they want the report of the National Conference acted upon? If a person or group of persons have a vested stake in the survival of this country, what have they done?

Maybe Nigerians are tired of protesting since government never reacts  positively to such protests, and at times, people are even killed when they protest…
But the protests by the Save Nigeria Group in 2010 worked, when the group came up at the time of the brouhaha about the illness of the then president, Umaru Yar’adua and the vacuum created by the absence of the president. The National Assembly came up with the doctrine of necessity.
They were reacting to the stimulus from the street, the press and the civil society. Then, there was the subsidy protest which unfortunately was only limited to Lagos and it was easy to suppress. But now, nobody is calling for the adoption and implementation of the recommendations of the National Conference, nothing is happening in that regard.

Are you now calling for government to adopt the report?
Sincerely, there is not much the government can do now. They are all busy with politics and re-election. The government itself has said that it is after May 29 that something can be done about the report. So, let’s wait and see waht happens.

The National Think Tank is your brainchild. What is the body doing to free Nigeria of the numerous challenges confronting it?
We regularly hold workshops and seminars and we commission papers and report  on issues affecting the nation. What we do not do is to play to the gallery. We could have easily issued a communique after each workshop, but at times, those in the corridors of power react negatively. They think you are putting them on the spot by going to the public with your statements. But the think tank is working very well, though it might be at the background.

Insecurity in Nigeria is assuming a frightening  proportion with the Boko Haram insurgency in the North east, to the extent that some foreign countries were here last year to help rescue the Chibok girls being held captive by the sect. Do you think Nigeria really need foreign help to defeat the insurgents?
We Nigerians have disgraced Nigeria. We have let ourselves down. Why do I say this? My generation had the privilege of going to school abroad. We all performed very well there. Even till now, Nigerians  have first class brains. We did well in those days. Now, we have run this country not only to the ground but also deep into the crater of the earth that for everything, we need foreign assistance.

Why didn’t we have our drones?
Building of drones is no longer nuclear science. A  secondary school kid in America will assemble a drone for you. The science is no longer esoteric. We have so little and yet celebrate more. We needed the drones from America or Britain to help fly to locate the areas where the Chibok girls were being held. What then happened that we fell apart, that disagreement then crept in between us and the Americans? As a scholar I cannot say, I can only conjecture. From the Americans that I have spoken to, I was told that they discovered that there were Boko Haram saboteurs within the military and the information the Americans were given  some of our military men were getting back to Boko  Haram, while some other information were not being acted upon. There were elements within the system who didn’t want the mission to succeed and even the military admitted that in the last six months, there were saboteurs among them. That is probably what led to that effort not being successful. But really, we can confront the Boko Haram by ourselves.

Do you really mean it, with the kind of army that we have?
There was a debate in the late 1970s and early ‘80s on what kind of armed forces we need in Nigeria. I was one of those who said we still need a large army. I based my recommendation on the large size of the armies in Egypt, Algeria, South Africa and Ethiopia. I was told that Egypt was fighting Isreal, that’s why it needed a large army, and I said you must not  put the Nigerian army in such a situation that it cannot withstand any army in Africa. But on the other hand were those who said we needed a small and mobile army, highly mechanised with latest equipment. It is not that the other side were foolish. They were thinking that the only threat to Nigeria would be external, therefore it would be airforce versus airforce. They were not thinking that Nigeria would ever face a guerrilla war.
There is no doubt that the biggest threat to Nigeria is guerrilla movement and you need a large army that will recapture the entire territory, hold it and still have enough troops to counter the incursions by the Boko Haram.
So,it is the wrong decision taken as regards what kind of armed forces we needed that we are now paying for. What is the use of spending money to build bridges, roads and hospitals when they were the first to be destroyed by the Boko Haram group?
Having security is expensive but you don’t have a choice. Look at the way Cameroun has dealt with Boko Haram.
We are now  a  laughing stock. It is not just a question of saboteurs within the armed forces but we don’t have enough troops. What is still bothering me is that even now that we realise we don’t have enough troops, people are still being disengaged from the army because they have done 30 years in service. To me, a man who has done over 30 years in the army is more experienced and valuable than a recruit, who has just been trained for six months. The high command of our army don’t realise the big hole that we are in.

But why have we not been able to bring the Boko Haram sect to its knees?
I served in the Committee on Boko Haram set up by the Federal Government for seven months and I believe both the President and the armed forces had their hands tied behind them in dealing with the Boko Haram sect. This is because for a long time, it was not the whole of Nigeria who thought that Boko Haram was a major issue. Even in the committee which I served, there were several members who thought we were demonising Boko Haram. They ascribed the emergence and spread of Boko Haram to unemployment, poverty and other factors in the North. But I ask; Is the North the only place being ravaged by poverty? There is poverty and unemployment all over Nigeria. Now, Boko Haram is showing its true colour and everybody is aghast.
The president and the armed forces did not have that unity that they needed to pursue the Boko Haram group at the earlier stage. Now, I think everybody has seen the need to join hands to combat the menace, because it is no longer a political problem,it has become an existentialist issue. It has the capability to break this country. So, what Nigeria really needs to bring Boko Haram to its knees are an enlarged force, experienced soldiers and modern equipment to fight the battle heads-on against the terrorists.

Some people are querying the role of Chad in the Boko Haram crisis…
I am no longer in government, so I can say this now. I am very suspicious of Chad because the country is playing a duplicitous role in the Boko Haram crisis. Nigeria needs to thoroughly investigate the relationship between Chad and Boko Haram. There is every indication that Chad knows more about the activities of the insurgents than it wants the world to believe. Why do I say this? Chad is not straight-forward in its dealings with Nigeria on the issue of combating the Boko Haram.

But Boko Haram also declared war on Chad in the latest video released by the sect’s leader…
Well, that’s for reasons best known to Boko Haram, though it might be a gimmick by the sect and Chad to divert attention from the suspicious collaboration between them.

So, how should Nigeria relate with Chad now?
Nigeria should not open a second war front against Chad but it must monitor its border with Chad. Take what happened in Baga for instance. Chad and Niger pulled out their troops a week before Boko Haram attacked without consulting Nigeria. We should make sure that in the process of fighting Boko Haram, Nigeria does not lose territories to our neighbouring countries.

How then do we combat Boko Haram?
Nigeria must put on a war footing. The Boko Haram group has the capacity to attack any part of Nigeria and I don’t see evidence of seriousness on the part of Nigerians and the government in handling that.
Just on the basis of terrorism threat over the Charlie Hebdo killings, Europe now has troops on their streets. How many troops do you see on Nigerian streets because of Boko Haram threat?

Could it be because Nigerians are usually alarmed and afraid when they see soldiers on the street since there is no state of emergency across the federation?
That is the price we have to pay. I am shying away from using that phraseology, ‘state of emergency’ because we are on the eve of elections. I don’t want anybody to read into my choice of words more than what I have in mind. However, I am not sure we need a state of emergency in Nigeria to put troops on the streets. I know, from my own intelligence report, that Nigerian troops are in 26 states of the federation now, performing internal security operations. We must really accept that we have an existentialist threat from the Boko Haram and we have to take it seriously. I think dealing with insurgency in Nigeria is now beyond politics. Boko Haram itself has declared war on both the APC and PDP in addition to Niger, Chad and Cameroun. I hope that in the remaining weeks of political campaigns, we must all lay hands to deal with this Boko Haram issue. We have not been able to deal with Boko Haram due to inadequate equipment. I travelled all over the country as part of the Boko Haram committee and I know what I saw on the ground at the various military units we visited. It is true that as at that time, there was inadequate weapons and ammunitions.

But huge funds are always allocated to the Ministry of Defence in the annual budgets…
I almost cried when I saw on CNN some of the recently dismissed Nigerian soldiers who said that when their armoured vehicles ran out of petrol, the Boko Haram insurgents came, filled it with petrol and drove it off. For God’s sake, how did we get to this stage? There was an attempt at the national conference for us to adopt a resolution calling for a commission of enquiry as to how military funds have been spent in the last five years. It was defeated on the basis that a committee of defence at the National Assembly should be allowed to handle it. But I believe, really, we can’t let it go. What happened to that money? We should know, as it is a disgrace to the whole armed forces. There must be a probe and those responsible to have misused the money must be brought to book.

Some soldiers were recently court-martialed for allegedly refusing to fight Boka Haram. Are the court-martials justified, considering that the soldiers claimed they refused to fight because they were not well equipped by the army to face the challenge?
I was a young man in this country in the 1960s, and I witnessed a breakdown of order and discipline in the military of that period, when ordinary sergeants would not obey the order of their commander, a major, but would rather obey a lieutenant who was of the same tribe with them.
They wrought havoc on Nigeria then. I don’t want to witness that kind of thing again. The army must be left alone to maintain order and discipline within its establishment.
Nevertheless, we should never allow the situation to occur where we deploy troops to fight without adequate equipment, and behind the scene, steps must be taken by the government to ensure that those responsible for the inadequate supply of equipment to the army are brought to book.
This is why I said there must be probe into how the money allocated to the armed forces in the last five years was spent.
Should the soldiers court-martialed and sentenced to death be killed?
It is a delicate matter and we should not play politics with it. Lawyers involved in this matter should exercise restraint. Really, I am confused on this. It is a tough call because I know that discipline must be maintained in the army. I think probably this is why the army is going through this exercise. It is painful for the army but I think they put order first and settle their grievances later. If I were the Commander in Chief, I wont know what to do. It is not an easy matter.

Pastor Tunde Bakare and some other prominent Nigerians have called for the postponement of the February general elections in view of the growing insecurity in the country. What is your take on this?
We are heading for a big constitutional conundrum if the elections are postponed or not held in some states. What did the constitution say about the election being held in the country in terms of winning two-thirds of the states? If elections are not held in the 36 states, how do you calculate two-thirds? The constitution did not say two-thirds of 36 states minus three. Unfortunately, these three states in the North east under Boko Haram attack are opposition states. Let us  put the facts on the table. If elections could not be held in the states, you would expect the opposition to test the constitutionality of the exercise itself. I think what is motivating those calling for the postponement of the election is to say election is not an end in itself. I don’t believe that the proposal for postponing the election would be taken, it would constitute a constitutional problem.

A peace agreement was recently signed by the political parties and their respective presidential candidates. To what extent do you think that the agreement will go in ensuring a rancour and violence-free election, considering that you called for the signing of such an agreement earlier and was rebuked by the presidential spokesman, Reuben Abati?
Yes, I feel vindicated and happy that my proposal was taken and I think people like Abati will always check with their principals before they open their mouths wide.
I feel happy and satisfied that not just BolajiAkinyemi but several other people were thinking along the same line, that there are people who care very deeply about this country and who want the best for Nigeria. I spent five years in exile as a NADECO chieftain. I am too old now to go and spend another five years outside if things fall apart in Nigeria. That is what is motivating me. I am 73 years old. I have been a Minister and served the nation well.I don’t think we have had up to 500 ministers since the creation of Nigeria.I am privileged to be among the ministers. So I am giving back in terms of ideas. The peace accord will definitely work well, once the parties and the persons who signed it keep to the spirit and letter of the accord and ensure that their supporters do the same. Strict adherence to the accord will ensure rancour and violence-free atmosphere before, during and after the elections.

Nigeria recently abstained from voting during the United Nations Security Council’s meeting to adopt a resolution that would have provided the leeway for the independence of Palestine. Considering Nigeria’s age-long support for the Palestinians’ cause, is the abstention not a betrayal of the trust the Palestinians reposed in Nigeria?
I believe that Nigeria’s action must have been done in the best interest of Nigeria. In diplomacy, we say that there are no permanent friends, but permanent interests. Nigeria’s action is justified because, yes, we may have been supporting the Palestinians over the years, but at the moment, if the United States and Israel brought something to the table, and the Palestinians did not, then we go the way of the United States and Israel.
I  understand that there was a call between Jonathan and Obama, and a call between Jonathan and Natanyahu. What did they promise? Did America promise that it will lift our oil again in exchange for us not supporting the resolution on the Palestinian statehood?
Then you have the question of Boko Haram. Boko Haram is local but it has now become an international franchise with Al-Quaeda, ISIS and the Taliban. Who are the people fuelling this? The fuelling is coming from the Middle East. We know that Isreal has been helping with the counter-terrorism in curbing Boko Haram. Natanyahu calls and reminds you that he is helping with Boko Haram and he will continue to do that. He said he is not asking you not to vote but just to abstain. If you are the president, what would you do? Would you say, no, we have been a friend to Palestine, we won’t abstain?
So, Nigeria’s abstention is not a betrayal of the Palestinians at all. It is Nigeria’s interest that matters, and this was exhibited by our delegate’s abstention from voting, and the resolution failed by not getting one more ‘yes’ vote.”

Nigeria’s rotational membership of the Security Council just lapsed. Should the country continue to push for permanent membership of the council, considering its failure in the pursuit since?
Of course, we must not be tired of pursuing it. It is the right way to go. We must continue to push for the permanent membership, until it is achieved.

You were once quoted to have said that there is no billionaire in Nigeria without a dirty past. Do you still subscribe to that viewpoint?
Yes, I do, a hundred per cent. There is no billionaire in Nigeria that government did not have input into his becoming a billionaire. What is the nature of our economy? It is either you are supplying things to government or bringing in goods or they give you waivers or licence to lift crude oil. We are still running a licensed economy, and when you do business with government, there would be kickbacks, bribery and corruption, etc.
So, there is no billionaire in Nigeria that is not tainted.