South East has no reason to reject Fulani herders – Apugo

Prince B.B. Apugo, a chieftain from Abia State is a member of the Board of Trustees and national caucus of the All Progressives Congress (APC). In this interview, he disagrees with the position taken by some governors on the Ruga settlements, the clamour for recognition by the Igbo and what President Muhammadu Buhari should do […]

Prince B.B. Apugo, a chieftain from Abia State is a member of the Board of Trustees and national caucus of the All Progressives Congress (APC). In this interview, he disagrees with the position taken by some governors on the Ruga settlements, the clamour for recognition by the Igbo and what President Muhammadu Buhari should do to sustain his social intervention programmes. Excerpts:

Daily Trust: States in the South East say they will not give their lands to settle Fulani herders. As an elder from that part of the country, what is your reaction to this?

Prince B.B. Apugo: You see, sometimes we make things that’re not supposed to be  problems to look like problems. In my area, we’ve been with, you call them herdsmen, we call them cattle dealers, we call them cow dealers, we call them the Fulanis. We’ve been with them all the time. Like in my home, Umuahia, everybody knows that Umuahia is the centre of cows in the East. And so, we attended ‘Garki,’ (terminus for cow), we rear cattle. I don’t think anybody who loves this country will make it a case. If the herdsmen as you call them can have ranches where they rear their cow, from where you can go and buy, I don’t see anything wrong with it.

DT: There’re allegations, especially in some quarters in the South and Middle Belt, that the ranching you talk about might not be the real purpose of the federal government. That giving the herders land in states that only the governors have powers to do so is an Islamization agenda…

Apugo: You see, that one I cannot say, but I know we’ve lived with them (Fulani) in my home when I was very young. My parents, my grand- parents, were with them. They never asked us for emirates. What’s in their mind today, I cannot say, but if it is to rear their cattle and have ranches, it’s okay. I don’t see anything good in going to people’s farms to destroy.

DT: Should government start the pilot project from some states in the North that have already indicated interest so as to reduce  fears of forceful take over of lands in other parts of the country?

Apugo: I agree with you. It’s something that all of us are going to see when it starts. Because it’s not going to start in all parts of the country same day. The federal government has to start it from somewhere, but I still maintain that I don’t see anything wrong. If they want to come to my home and have a ranch, it’s business for us. It’s only if there’s another thing in people’s mind, but if it’s bringing cow, we’ve been living with them all this time.

DT: There’re allegations that the herders these days carry guns instead of sticks…

Apugo: If they carry AK47 rifles, in the first place I don’t think they’re herdsmen. Of course, the herdsmen that I know carry sticks like you rightly said. If they’re herdsmen they’ve no business carrying rifles with them. The best for the government to do is to make sure that herdsmen don’t carry rifles, and should go with their sticks. Anything apart from carrying their sticks, I don’t think we should call them herdsmen. And if you go by what Olusegun Obasanjo said, me, I won’t take Obasanjo’s word for anything because he had said a lot of things, including that anybody that voted for Atiku God should punish him. He shouldn’t be taken by his words, most of the statements he made can incite. This country is looking for permanent peace, and that’s the only thing that’ll make Nigeria remain a country.

DT: When IPOB and MASSOB were active in their agitations, the federal government designated them as a terrorist group. But the present administration is negotiating with herdsmen…

Apugo: One thing we should understand is that these killings are also happening in the North, so, there’s no way we can say the killing is in a particular area. The security agencies should add more force to their operations to stop this menace of terrorism. Then, coming to my area, you spoke about IPOB…We don’t even know the people, we don’t know them in our place, not to talk of knowing MOSSOB. But these ones (the Fulanis), we’ve seen them.

DT: Are you now saying the Ohaneze and some South East governors who’re opposed to the idea of grazing and Ruga settlements are ill conceived in their thought?

Apugo: In the South East, when you say Ohaneze, it’s not something that’s visible. Nobody knows what’s called Ohaneze, including me. You call Oduduwa, Afenifere in the South West, you know them, you can see somebody. So, Ohaneze is not the name of anybody, but Afenifere, you’ll see somebody standing. In Arewa, you can see somebody standing for the protection of their people, not when the time of politics comes, you’ll see a group of people saying we’re Ohaneze just to take money from politicians. Not for the interest of the people. Look at it that way. So, the Ohaneze speak from both sides of their mouth. The people are not known as far as I’m concerned. People shouldn’t be taking Ohaneze as speaking on behalf of the Igbo.

DT: With what you’re saying, don’t you think your people will accuse you of being pro-North or pro-South West?

Apugo: No, for you to praise people that’re doing well, I don’t think it’s wrong. Anywhere that we’ve done well, I’ll say it. I’m praising those people so that our people should copy their attitude. Yes, our people should come together like them and be stronger.

DT: Let’s talk on the agitation for the next president of Nigeria to come from the South East. Do you see the possibility of that happening in 2023?

Apugo: You see, that’s imagination! Nothing is wrong with presumptions, but for me, is too early to start talking about 2023 when we haven’t survived 2019. It’s after those in government have settled themselves, we’ve ministers and others in place, then by 2020, 2021 we start talking about 2023. Nobody knows who’ll live up to that time. We’re not God.

DT: You defected from PDP to APC, are you comfortable where you’re now?

Apugo: You see, sincerely speaking, I’ve a position that should make me comfortable but yet, I’m like an orphan because of my colleagues. I’m calling on my colleagues to come back.

DT: Who are they?

Apugo: I’m calling on my colleagues to come back, not only that, I’m also calling on South East governors to join the APC because we cannot be talking of power coming to us without having allies, and the allies we’ve must trust us.

DT: Do you think the federal government has been fair to Igbos to warrant the governors joining the APC?

Apugo: That’s why I’m calling on them to come, because if you’re not there you cannot say what you want. If you’re in the opposition, you’re called opposition.

DT: You said the position you hold should’ve made you comfortable, but yet you’re calling on your allies who left the APC to come back. How do you reconcile this?

Apugo: I call myself an orphan because I want my people in the South East to join the APC to be able to ask for what the government should do for them. My state delivered 25 per cent, I’m from Abia State. Enugu didn’t deliver, Anambra didn’t deliver, Imo didn’t deliver, it’s Ebonyi that delivered.  And if APC is going for those that won election, I don’t think the other three would get anything. And if they didn’t get anything, is a big load on Abia and Ebonyi, the rest would be starved.

DT: The Igbos have already lost out from getting key positions in both the executive and the legislature, now that it’s time for ministerial appointments, what’s your expectation?

Apugo: That’s the reason I asked them to come in. You don’t call somebody who’s not with you and give him appointment. If they were there, nobody will negotiate it because it’s is their right.

DT: Where’s the rallying point for the Igbo to project the image of the South East?

Apugo: That’s exactly what I said earlier when I was asked about Ohaneze. It should have been the rallying point, but now I don’t want to talk about Ohaneze again. I want us to use APC as the rallying point.

DT: How can the FG ensure that programmes, especially the social investment programmes are implemented at the state level?

Apugo: I suggest that President Buhari should appoint presidential liaison officers in the states, especially in those states not controlled by APC. The PLOs will be in charge of all FG projects in the states and ensure they are fully implemented. We had a similar thing during the Second Republic.