Why I’m working with Turaki, Tinubu — Ribadu

One of your opponents, President Goodluck Jonathan, has been moving from state to state campaigning. When will you start yours? You see, to be honest, we have been doing a lot. We have had this colloquium which is very unique and meaningful. It was a chance we had to present ourselves and directly talk to […]

One of your opponents, President Goodluck Jonathan, has been moving from state to state campaigning. When will you start yours?

You see, to be honest, we have been doing a lot. We have had this colloquium which is very unique and meaningful. It was a chance we had to present ourselves and directly talk to Nigerians. Nigerians heard what Chief Audu Ogbeh said; what Governor Babatunde Fashola said. It was a live television programme. We called our candidates to interact with Nigerians. We called our performing governors to tell Nigerians what they have for them.  That was the beginning and since then, we have been doing so at the lower level. We have been meeting with strategic constituencies.

What do you mean by strategic constituencies?

For example, we are talking with the unemployed people; the market women; the pensioners; among others. We have not had rest for a single moment. And we are going to go out for the rallies next week. We are an opposition party trying to capture power at the centre. Today, the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) is in power. They are doing what they want. Even to get a police permit was an issue for us. We wanted to launch our campaign in Jigawa, but the police in Jigawa have refused to give us approval to launch our presidential campaign there. They took longer than what we wanted.

What reasons did they give?

I don’t know. But we were denied. These are some of the difficulties opposition parties are facing. Every step we take is a hurdle and an obstacle. We are really finding it tough and difficult. Look at the funfair the PDP is doing. The people are not there, but they are displaying opulence and vanity. To me, it is very obscene and an insult on the intelligence of Nigerians. Look at their crude and ostentatious display of resources, whereas Nigerians can hardly eat. They are flying our helicopters; they belong to all of us. They are not paying a penny for it.  They go to the states; they use government facilities and local governments money. They go to four to five states on the same day.

If you were president and you are seeking re-election, wouldn’t you use state resources and facilities?

I would not! I promise you I won’t. It won’t happen. Then, what is the change we are talking about? We are going to stop all this wastage. We need the money to address the problems of our own people. Talking about the elections, we are not rich but we are working hard to evolve the best way to talk to Nigerians. When we wanted to start, police didn’t allow us. We are working on what they give us.

Also, I can tell you that Nigerians are listening to us more than they do to the PDP. This is because when they go to those rallies, they don’t say anything, apart from dancing in empty stadia. The PDP is even tired of making promises they know they can’t fulfil. They are not even making the promises again, because they promised, promised and failed and failed. We will make Nigerians understand that the PDP has failed and we have an alternative for them.

Is there any relationship between your venturing into politics and your activities at the EFCC?

I would say yes and no. No; in the sense that I have always been in the public service.  This is my life. I like it and it makes me happy. This is a continuation of public service. I went into politics because I want to continue to serve. I want an opportunity to serve the Nigerian people. My experiences in the EFCC made me believe that we have a lot of problems in this country.  I believe also that, given the chance, I will solve them. I understood that the greatest challenge facing this country is the dearth of leadership. My exposure at the EFCC revealed to me the huge leadership deficiency in the country. I also understand that corruption is a big problem that needs to be addressed at the highest level.

Your critics are saying that it is a contradiction that Senator Saminu Turaki, who is still facing corruption charges, is leading ACN in Jigawa state. As an anti-corruption crusader, how do you reconcile this?

I am out to be a leader to every citizen of Nigeria. I don’t have the arrogance to feel that anybody is less than any other person. And that it is the constitutional right of every Nigerian to participate in politics and belong to a political party.   And I don’t see myself any better than any human being. I don’t have the arrogance that somebody is less for me to relate with. Also, I am going to be a leader of every Nigerian.

My own responsibility at the EFCC, I did it to the best of my ability. I had the responsibility to enforce the law and if you crossed the line, I will do my job. That was all I did. It was not personal. I was not against any people. That was all I did as chairman of the EFCC. Someone in the PDP abusing someone in another party; this is unbelievable. I heard my brother, Sule Lamido, talking about it, but let him take time and look at the PDP. If you are in the PDP, you should shut up about corruption. Nobody should say anything about corruption in the PDP. The issue now is what we do to solve the problems of our people.  Our concern now is providing social amenities, bring rule of law, law and order, create employment for the overall wellbeing of our people. This is what worries me.

Are you not concerned that those suspected to be corrupt around you would pull you back? You are only an individual; they have their interests and sentiments. Can’t they stop you from realising these objectives if you become president?

I don’t think so. Like I told you, when you are doing this type of work there is no way to be running away from people. Let me give you an example. The Director General of the Buhari Campaign Organisation, Alhaji Sule Yahaya Hamma, was the very person he locked for about two to three years. Sule Hamma was imprisoned by Buhari. It is not stopping him doing politics with him. And it doesn’t mean that your past official life will foreclose you from working with people in the future. I believe that human beings can make mistakes but that doesn’t mean that they can’t contribute towards something good and positive for all of us. My own strategy is to be all-inclusive; to give people opportunity to be what they can and contribute positively. The only difference is that in my own case, I will draw a line. I will say that is it.

But how will you fight corruption, if elected president?

My understanding is that the best way to stop corruption is to have political authority. You must lead by example. That is very important. As president you must live by example. You should not be caught pants down. You must not be corrupt. You must not bring your selfish interest into that office. That is the first. You must attract quality and honest people to work with you. You must not allow them to be corrupt. You shouldn’t allow corruption to be anywhere closer to you.

Luckily, I have that experience. I created an agency of government and I ran it successfully. Not only that, I led by example. I have evidence to show that I can fight corruption. I led by example because at the EFCC, people gave me money, but not only that I rejected it, but I used it to prosecute them. If someone tells you that he is honest and he can fight corruption, let that person present the evidence. I have that evidence. Someone gave me USD15 million, I used it to prosecute that person. Other people gave me millions and I used it to prosecute them. Integrity matters a lot in this issue.

Two, you have to get good people around in all sectors, including the sector that fights corruption. Corruption can’t fight corruption. You have to get clean people who can fight corruption. Three, you have to make corruption less attractive. Create incentives that will make people really not want to go near it. Improve the standard of living of people generally as well as those public servants by making good rules that will guide their own conduct. Implement all our laws. The best way to fight corruption is to make it very difficult to happen.

Another issue is that of poverty. When people are hungry, when they are in difficulty daily, very few will stand out even if they don’t do it they can tolerate others who do it and come back to give them. Make people less dependent on this by addressing their standard of living.  By the grace of God, I am fairly qualified to tackle these issues.

But the tendency is that if you see much money, all these ideas in your head may vanish. And you will just allow people to enjoy themselves. Don’t you think so?

I saw money. I worked at the highest level. With the position I held at the EFCC, if you like, you can be the richest Nigerian.

But what happened to the N20 billion recovered from Tafa Balogun? The National Assembly is asking this question?

People have been asking me this question.  They are perfectly entitled to ask and there are people who are supposed to answer this question.  For me, there is nothing they didn’t turn upside down when they were witch- hunting me. If they couldn’t get anything then,I doubt if they can get anything now.

How much did you actually recover from Balogun?

You see, whatever you do in law enforcement is made public. We got judgement from the Federal High Court. Nothing was done in secret including every penny that was recovered from him. It must be in the charges. There must be court orders on all that was recovered. You can calculate it yourself by going through the judgement.  There was no recovery that was done behind or under the table. The case all went to court; there were judgements and so on. And the judgement was implemented according to what the courts said. All they are saying is nothing but speculations. You can go to the records and you will see what is there.

But the issue here is where the money is?

That is why I said the issue is a court document. Therefore, there is no need to speculate on it. What one needs to do is to get the records. The National Assembly can simply get the court records and trace where the money went. It is as simple as that.   But in my own case, nobody called Nuhu Ribadu in that case. If it was something that didn’t go to court, then you have difficulty. But it was something that went to court. Every single dime was in the court documents.

At what stage did you part ways with President Jonathan?

I have not parted ways with President Jonathan.

There were some corruption charges against Jonathan when he was governor of Bayelsa State.

There was none.

What about his wife, Dame Patience?

There was none at all and I said it severally.

You recently started accusing him. You were in exile, you came back to the country when Jonathan became president; the charges against you were dropped; he restored your rank by converting your dismissal to retirement and so on. Are all these coincidences?

Is that why I can’t talk about him when the foreign reserve is being depleted?  In the first instance, I went out of this country out of my own volition. There was no case against me. I left the country to save my life. Those people who totally got it wrong were in power. They were power drunk and they wanted to kill me.  I left the country on my own. But God brought change to Nigeria. I didn’t do anything in the first place that would warrant my not coming back.

The same people who wanted to kill me went to court saying that I didn’t declare my assets. But the Code of Conduct Bureau (CCB) had my forms. While the court was about to give judgement, the federal government withdrew the case and said it was witch-hunting, having seen my forms submitted to the CCB.  It was ridiculous and on their own, they said they won’t continue with that trial. My own asset declaration forms were with the Code of Conduct Tribunal (CCT) and I even made it public. The Aondoakaas of this world, the James Iboris of this world thought they could do what they wanted. Even then, the only thing they had against me was that I didn’t submit my asset declaration forms, not that I have assets. There is nothing like parting ways with Jonathan.  There was nothing to do with Goodluck Jonathan as a person.

You described the emergence of Jonathan as a change. Compare the late Yar’adua’s administration and that of Jonathan.

You see, Yar’adua is dead. May his soul rest in peace! I want to be quiet about him.

But you talked about Jonathan’s emergence as president as a change?

The change I am talking about is that Ibori is in prison today. And Aondoakaa has returned to his village. Many of them are not even around. That is the change I am talking about. But it is not about any change in anything in government.

Rule of law wise, is there any change between Jonathan’s and Yar’adua’s government?

I totally disagree with the PDP government. They are fraudulent and they never got it right. They are a collection of people who don’t know how to run a country. They don’t have the experience and the knowledge. They are very selfish people and they only take care of themselves. Whether it is the PDP of 2007, 2008 and 2010; they are the same PDP. I judge them the same.

What about the PDP of 1999 to 2007?

I was never a PDP man. I was only a public servant, if you want to extract something from it. I was never a PDP member.

There are insinuations that you are being teleguided by Asiwaju Bola Tinubu.

But how can one person be teleguided by many people? They say I am being teleguided by Tinubu. Obasanjo is also tele-guiding me.  Jonathan is also controlling me and so on. All these people are teleguiding me!

It is said that you are being teleguided by Tinubu because it was he who identified you and called you to be a presidential candidate?

For me, Tinubu played a very prominent role in shaping the political fortunes of this country, particularly in recent history. If not because of Tinubu, the PDP would have overrun this country. Whether we like it or not, it is the same politics that produced Governor Fashola in Lagos who is doing incredibly well.  It is the same politics also that produced Kayode Fayemi and Rauf Aregbesola. They are performing, connecting to their own people. We need to give him the credit. It is the same PDP that is fighting him.  It is the PDP that is desperately trying to stop him from bringing people who bring relief to Nigerians. If you share the same view, then you are only helping the PDP.

But then why did it take you so long to get a running mate? When you got it, you’re flying a Muslim-Muslim ticket?

I took my time to thoroughly study the situation and come out with the best I could. Most times, if you rush into taking decisions it does not usually augur well. The choice I made was based on his confidence and quality. I choose a Nigerian. I also choose someone with a towering credential of private sector, the economy and international exposure. I got all the three qualities in an incredible Nigerian who happens to be a Muslim. I am concerned about solving the problems confronting our people. Poverty has no religion or ethnicity. The challenges facing the country are facing all of us. I need a team that can deliver.  I tend to look at Nigerians, first as Nigerians, and what they have to offer.