Interview • Created July 26, 2025 05:00

Why traditional rulers should be involved in policy formation – Etsu Nupe

His Royal Highness, Alhaji (Dr) Yahaya Abubakar, is the13th Etsu Nupe and has been on the throne for 22 years. The retired military general in this interview with our correspondents explains why Traditional rulers should be assigned constitutional roles and the advantages of having those with military backgrounds in traditional institutions, amongst other issues like […]

You’ve been on the throne for 22 years now. How has it been?

We thank Allah immensely for giving us life and time and the privilege of occupying this traditional stool of our forebears. We assumed this seat precisely on the 11th of September 2003; after serving in the military for a period of above 30 years: God has ordained that we occupy this stool; so be it.

And I’ve been here for the past 22 years. I’ve been trying to see what we can do for to our people. What are the people’s aspirations; their well-being; security; and togetherness of our people, the Nupe in particular.

Nupe is one of the biggest tribes in Nigeria. And we are scattered all over the place, you know – in the North, South, East and West, and even the Diaspora. We have Nupe all over the place.

So, we want to see how we can have a unity of purpose for the well-being of the community, the state, and Nigeria as a whole.

We’ve started on a good footing; we established an event known as Nupe Day, a celebration which we mark every year on the 26th of June. We set it aside, going back in history to when from when the whites came to colonise us and from the South to the North.

Our forefathers waged a war against them that was fearlessly fought but with so many casualties and sacrifices. So, we observe that day as the day of success, promoting our identity as Nupe people. We set aside the 26th of June to celebrate.

We also looked at our environment. What do we have? What can we do? What do we need to do to enhance the standard of living of our people? You know God has blessed our land, it’s a very vast land, and very suitable for agricultural activities.

We grew up with our father who was actually a farmer. So, we have a passion for farming and agricultural activities.

The rate at which the population is growing very fast in the face of looming scarcity of food, we resolved to encourage our people to go into agriculture. We had to start personally appearing in the farm thereby encouraging our people, to do same when they see us, the emir, the Etsu physically in the farms.

We also considered the area of education. Niger State, was known to be very much ahead education-wise. Then, suddenly, the level was dropping, children were not passing their WASC again, and school attendance was going too low, teachers were not properly catered for. Some schools didn’t have teachers. You can see a school with 300 pupil population having only one or two teachers, you know, they cannot cope really.

So, we decided to go into that sector of education by setting up a primary school, a secondary school, and, God in His infinite mercies, we are also establishing a university now, known as Edusoko University, to encourage and to complement what government is already doing, because we believe that the programmes and projects, within the government scope cannot meet up with the demands of the people and we need to complement the government’s efforts.

We didn’t neglect the health sector. We decided to encourage our people to go for health, medical checks in the hospitals, and were also able to gather resources to build a health centre where those people who don’t have much money can go to. The people will go there and get the drugs prescribed, the ones they don’t have, we prescribe them, you go and buy. So, we help in that area also.

We even took the step of inviting a team, NGO, from the US to come and give medical outreach to our people – free eye treatment, ear treatment, and what have you. They came in two batches and attended to our people.

Then security, which is very important. You know, security is everybody’s business. And then we went ahead to set up a committee that will cater for the internal security of Bida Town because at a certain point in time, we discovered that we have a lot of disenfranchised youth; you know, some youths are getting drugged, going uncontrolled, you know. They’re on the streets or the corners of the streets, harassing people – women, especially, and less privileged people. You dare not go out by six o’clock; you have to be indoors, otherwise, you’ll be molested or something. So, we had to set up that committee to take care of that. With that committee operational this threat has started going down.

The security agents are doing their work, but it is too much for them, you know, considering the rate at which the insurgency is going on, terrorism is going on, use of weapons is advanced, there’s no more cutlasses, it is no more bow and arrow, no; it’s what we call AK-47, automatic weapons, and then they are very daring, so we need to tighten our belts very well.

We called our village heads, ward heads, and district heads and alerted them on the present-day situation on security. They should wake up and organise their own security within their domains, within their surroundings. You know, when one eye is sleeping, another eye is open.

We thank Allah the Almighty that we are able to put a sort of control in that aspect, you know, not that we wiped it out completely no, we controlled it properly, so that people can go about their normal business.

Will you say your background in the military has helped you in tackling the security issues?

Definitely, definitely, that is the advantage I enjoy. Having served in the military for 30 years and above, when you’re confronted with such a situation, quickly a solution comes to your head. Because I’ve been there and saw it, felt it, and participated in it, when it’s around you, nobody will come and give you any better advice than yourself because God has given you the opportunity, the privilege to pass through it.

We selected very, very disciplined youth, young people of the same age with the people who are causing problems to handle them. These people are the same age with you, they are disturbing the community, so, fight them, you know, get them in order. So, we use that background to solve those issues.

Your highness, you said sometime back that one of the challenges you face on the throne coming from the military background, is that in the military, if you gave an order, it was carried out immediately but now it is a little bit delayed.

Yes, that is the difficulty I had at the beginning.

Have you been able to adapt to these attitudes or you’ve been able to mould to respond with military dispatch?

No, rather, they’re the ones that moulded me. I have come to understand that people respond to issues differently. Some understand what you are saying, some pretend not to and some will understand but refuse to understand, so to speak.

So, when I discovered I said no, I think I’m done with the military orders. I need to persuade people, an issue that I can solve when I was in the military within five minutes, it would take me one hour to resolve now.

If the issue was when I was in the military, if certain issues come up, within five minutes, I am done with them because I would say do this, do that, don’t do this, don’t do that but now I can’t do that.

I have to persuade, I have to let them know the step they’re taking is not good by virtue of religion, tradition, and convince them beyond reasonable doubt that what they are doing is against the natural law.

As chairman of the state traditional council, you are the only traditional ruler with the privilege of having two former heads of state in your domain and both of them are former military officers – that is Gen. Babangida and Gen. Abdulsalami.?

God has already ordained that these people will become heads of state at a certain point in time and that they will come from the same geographical area, so the advantages there are numerous.

Though some people will complain but it is not our own making to have them from the same place. If it had through a democratic process, they may even have had the opportunity.

So, it’s to our advantage, because now we are better placed than some people from other places who come to seek advice, patronage and solutions to their prevailing problems. So, they’ve become what you call icons, reference points, whereby people who have not even known or travelled to Niger before, they will come all the way, from North, South, East, West, to see these people.

If you have a problem in your domain that you cannot solve as a human being, you can go as far as China, to look for that knowledge, God has already given you permission to go. You go there, seek them there, we have that advantage in our state. Those of us who are here, we thank God for having them. You know, so it is a blessing.

Apart from you there are other traditional rulers like the Sultan with military backgrounds. What is the relationship like?

That bond that we had from the military is very strong. And it has been propelling us in our new function as traditional-cum-religious leaders. Anytime we see meet, we exchange ideas and experiences we had experienced in the effort at societal peace and development.

And then, we ask ourselves, did we actually imagine that we’ll be here, at this point? You don’t know. So, you first of all, in the military, subject yourself, that you are there, to defend the territorial integrity of this country. So, whether you are a prince, or you are going to become a king or you are a normal person.

That sort of oath, you are taking, to defend the territorial integrity of the country you have to uphold it. You know, you are supposed to observe that one, in anything you do. So, it’s a very strong bond that you see. Like I used to joke, with one of my colleagues in the NDA, we had the experience of, novice boxing, they call it novice boxing. They pair you with somebody, and after we went into the ring, we boxed, and I defeated him. So, any time he came to see me, he said, he didn’t know that he was boxing a king. That if he had known, he wouldn’t even dare. So you see, those are some of the joys that we experienced.

Up to now, we see all, you know, all of us going together in that passion. So, we enjoy it. I always say if you had been privileged to go to the military, and you have a long life to serve somewhere, honestly, you have all the advantages that you have, as far as this life is concerned.

The current National Assembly is pushing for constitutional role for traditional rulers. What is your take, and what would you advise the National Assembly to do?

You see, I think it was a mistake removing the role of traditional rulers or institution from the Constitution of 1999. It was a mistake. Otherwise, if you check all the constitutions we have, before independence, during independence, up to 1979, there are specific roles for traditional institutions; it is there.

But, God knows what happened, suddenly, it was removed. And the moment it was removed, there was what you call, a broken link, between the government and the governed; the gap is too much

People in government, when they make policies, they sit down, draw programmes, most of the programmes don’t work, because the people who are supposed to benefit, haven’t got any direction, any understanding.

That link that was broken. The traditional institutions know the feelings and are the ones to enforce them knowing what their people want, knowing what they are doing, if they are being brought into the affairs of policy making, decision taking, and the implementation, all of these things, things will go fine.

If for instance, we sit side by side at the council of states at federal level, you know, and then policies on education, agriculture, health etc, and the government brings what will benefit our people, we will definitely pass it, and convince our people beyond reasonable doubt that yes, this programme is good for you.

The one that will not benefit them, from the top there, we will tell the government. We will say, no, our people are not used to this. If you want to do it, you have to follow our local culture.

For instance, there’s this issue of polio vaccination at one time, it became a very, very, tragic programme. Government couldn’t even lay a hand on anybody. Those who go to villages, and towns, to administer it, they were driven away, that they were coming to destroy them, destroy manhood, womanhood, so they don’t want it.

So, it took government a hell of a time. They had to involve the traditional institution to intervene. And the moment we came in, we were able to sensitise our people. Before we could even sensitise, we undertook, a team, with the medical team to go and verify the genuineness of that vaccination.

Is it good? Does it affect humans, you know, reproductive, something? Organs or whatever, you know? So, we had to verify and confirm. The moment we confirmed, then we had the authority to come and tell our people, no, no, no, don’t worry. This thing is not against any health. It’s going to promote our children’s health, it’s meant for children between, age one to five, it will be administered and they will be well. So, we convinced them. There and then, they started yielding to the programme. And then now, we are so lucky, the 10th National Assembly, they are working round the clock, to ensure that this institution is brought back to the fold, the heart of governance.

There was this issue of, setting up, health centres in all our local governments, 774, local governments. So much money was dished out. And they went to the villages, to establish the centres.

Tell me, which doctors that live in the city will go to the villages where there’s no water, no light, not even roads to the place. Do you want that? I don’t know.

Assuming we have been brought in to be part of the decision making, we would have advised the government, that instead of doing all the 774 local governments, reduce it to only a hundred. Okay? Only one hundred or two hundred, as the case may be from there now, you can extend them. And before you do to the villages, make sure that, the road to that village is good. Make sure that you have electricity either through solar or whatever. Make sure you have good drinking water.

There this issue about traditional institutions been politicised. What’s your take on this and what do you advise other traditional rulers to do for the integrity and sanity of the institution? Yes. This thing can be corrected. You can look at the involvement of traditional rulers in politics from two angles; one, lack of money – no funds. A lot of the traditional rulers spend money while they don’t have anything coming. And they want to live up to the expectations of their people. You go to any palace now, you see how many people, flood down into a palace, and there’s no income coming.

So, the tendency of a traditional ruler to start to align himself with somebody who is coming, a politician, who will give him money, so that he can service his people will come in. The other aspect is protection, self-esteem; I want to be close to one governor so that my people will respect me.

So now in what we are proposing in our own memo, we want an arrangement whereby the traditional rulers will be insulated from partisan politics. Don’t come to us to beg for any vote, go and cast your vote. You can come to us for blessing, and we will pray for you.

But please don’t say I want so-so many votes from you, no. I cannot guarantee you any number of votes. And I cannot tell my people that vote for Mr. A, and don’t vote for Mr. B. When it comes to advice, we can say if you get this thing, please do this for our people. If you get it, please do it for your people. Every one of them will come like that.

By that you are totally respecting your stool, and taking everybody as your own because if you now align with Mr. A, and it happens that Mr. B wins, where are you going to put your face? So that is one thing that is disturbing, bothering some of us.

We’ll be meeting among ourselves because we are proposing that at the federal level, there will be Council of Traditional Rulers of Nigeria, the council, comprising of all the chairmen of traditional institutions in all the states, 36 plus Abuja, 37.

Then at the state also, there will be Council of Traditional Rulers comprised of the emirates within the state. Then local governments also have Council of Traditional Rulers comprised of the chiefdoms within the local government. They’ll be sitting from time to time to address issues, state issues, economic issues, social or whatever issues, you know, among themselves from time to time, and advise the local government, and advise the state government, and advise the federal government.

And then when they are meeting also, sometimes there will be a forum whereby the local government chairman will be on seat at that meeting.

He will let the chiefs know what programme he has for education, what programme he has for agriculture for health. Then the chiefs will advise him on the way forward. Then the chiefs will also support him to implement these programmes.

Things will go smoothly from local government chairman to the traditional institution, to the people. Whatever people want will pass through the traditional institution to the government because we are always with them; we know what they want and how they feel.

Even in foreign countries, they have what is called peculiar to them. Traditionally, they have their own counties, even America, they have counties where you have sheriffs taking care of security. The sheriff is under local control. So here, we have villages, we have towns, we have communities living together and even different tribes. It’s only traditional institutions that can bridge that gap between the government and the governed.

We’ll put it in our memorandum let’s have funding from the government. Abacha placed a partial provision for that by assigning 5% of revenue from the state to the traditional institutions.

Having three retired generals from the state and the escalating insecurity in the state. What measures have the three of you, yourself, General IBB and General Abdulsalami, taken to curb the insecurity in the state?

Yes, you know, things became so bad when they were being segregated, separated from the point of view of the judiciary, legislature, and the executive at that level. And, you know, you can’t just go out, you know, doing things because you are a general, or you are a general in the army, you are retired. You have to go through the law; you have to follow the due process. And now, the people are so much aware, and they are so much enlightened to the extent that any step you take now, as an individual, you’ll be challenged. You cannot order the police. Even the state governors, they find it very difficult to instruct, or to advise, or to use the police in their domains. If the CP is not the one that knows what to do even if you tell him I want you to go and clear those, he says, okay, sir, I will be waiting for order from the above. That’s the end of it. So, what can a general do there?

I take you back, when the traditional institution was actually the authority running the NA, native authority, they call it, there used to be what you call a’ joint sitting’ in all affairs of the community.

By your left here, you have a religious leader, either an imam or a pastor. By your right here, you have a judge, known as alkali, who knows about the customary law and everything. And in the middle, you have the king. The register will read all the cases before these people. Then the king will turn to the religious leader. What does your religion say on that one? He will turn to the lawyer, what is our customary law on that issue. They will advise the king, and the king will now take immediate action. With this joint collaboration, the emir will give the order and then it will be carried out.

There is no going back for anyone, because even the police, native police were under the emir. So, the moment the emir gives the order, that is what the police are going to do.

But the link has been broken. You cannot advise or order somebody to do that, whereas in those days, it is mandatory.

Do you think state police is necessary?

The moment you have state police; the control and the activity of that state police will be by the government. So, when something’s happening, and they can charge them immediately to go and take care of it. All you need is, okay, so I don’t have logistics, I don’t have the tech. Go and do it. But you see what is happening now? The governments are still supporting the security agents with some logistics. Yet, they will tell you they are waiting for order from the above.

With state police, the command and control will be under the state government, and they’ll be able to identify immediate area of crisis, and they will read the situation of the crisis, and take care of it. Secondly, if I ask the police, the composition of the state police will be more of indigenous people in the area.

We will have about 75% or 90% to be indigenous. They know the people.

The issue the politicians are raising, that they could be misused. Yes. That fact is there. But if it’s there, what do you do? You already know it. You’re already aware that that issue will come up. So how do you tackle it? There are so many ways to tackle it.

One, they will be equipped and armed less than the federal police. So, the federal police will have a variety of strengths over them. So, where politicians in the state is seen as monopolising or engaging his own police to commit atrocities, the federal one might take over.

Let’s quickly touch on the issue of Almajiri. Many have said lack of political will is what has kept this menace festering on. What is your view, do you think that is the major problem that has hindered the solution?

Okay. This is what I said earlier. When this, our institution was there to complement the act of governance. We know when you go by government bureaucracy, the issue of taking care of social sort of happiness in the community cannot be handled completely and successfully by the authority. So we need people who are within the community to hold and then implement this social ease you have. Because I imagine it’s like a social ease. Nobody stops, you know, education. Nobody kicked out education. But the behaviour of the students roaming around the street, begging is what we are against. And it’s a social issue. So who is best placed to correct it? It’s the traditional institution.

Government can bring the policy, okay. It can bring the programme and then even bring some funding. I don’t want to see any children on the street again begging.

By God, we don’t say, I don’t want any children to go to Islamic school. No, we don’t say that. We don’t say I don’t want to see anybody begging in the street again.

Anybody, you know, any boy under the age of 10 should not be seen on the street begging. So now who will implement that one? The traditional institution. Because from the beginning, you know, from ages, we have this, what do you call it? You know, tsangaya.

You know, people who are around there in the morning, in the night, in the afternoon. And they are being fed from the homes, like in my area, when I was growing up. There was a place I used to pray and go to and learn the Qur’an.

I would go there in the morning, learn, and then come back in the evening. Go home, eat, and come back and continue. So the issue of me going to start begging for tsangaya was not there.

So, but what do we have here now? We have some malams who take it as a trade to collect children from their homes and transport them like sheep or like cows, moving from their own areas. That is going to, maybe from Sokoto, or he’s going to Bida, to go and teach. So he gathers all the children from Sokoto, gather them to Bida.

He has not even a single farm, not even a single grain to give to the children. You come, you just get accommodation in Bida. In the morning, you tell the children to go and start looking for food.

Why? What are the parents doing? Why should the parents allow their children to be taken away from their own domain, which is their primary responsibility to feed their children, or to even carry their children to farm to go and learn how to make food or something. Now they say, go and eat. No cover, nothing.

So all this has to be checked from the parents’ level, from the teachers’ level. Whoever is a teacher, what authority have you got to establish a mobile teaching, a sort of teaching that you move from Sokoto to Bida? No certificate, no licence, no checking, nobody checks, and just on your own. So all these are left too much out of, nobody checking again.

So unless and until we go back to our domain, the community must have laws, rules, and regulations guiding the people. You may not allow everybody to do what they want to do. You have all this menace, this social menace.

And that’s why the authorities are failing in even addressing these issues, because they allow it to grow. The necessity, the act of getting things done properly is being sort of ignored and anybody allowed to do what they want to do. Even if you talk on the health sector, when you say you are giving licence to people to establish health centres and charge people, people now even establish health centres without even licence.

They don’t even call it licence again. You see somebody who is a nurse in a hospital has a clinic in his house.

People go to him, go to her, to take medicine. And she prescribes, because while she’s working and she’s being paid, she knows how if you are having a headache, you should take Panadol. If you have a stomach ache, you should take Andrews liver salt.

She can easily do that and charge people. And the authorities don’t even know about her. They didn’t even give her a licence, but she is operating. So you see, when you have a community of two, 10, 100 people, there must be rules and regulations guiding that community and that must be obeyed. So the issue of health emergency can only be addressed locally, from the place.

How are they generated? How do you generate an emergency? What are the principles of emergency? And you now address the conduct, because the conduct is important. But the principle of emergency is, go and learn Quran, Islamic knowledge. But the conduct now, they say go and learn and then beg.

You write it. What do you call it? Orders. You know, we do appreciation before orders. After you appreciate the situation, then you come to orders. So why are you giving these orders? Incorrect. But now, you see a situation, the one that you don’t even know, the one that you know, you have to go through history.

The level of understanding is different. Because when I started in the military, I was assuming that everybody should know like me. Should know what I know. But when I discovered that no, it’s not like that. This man before me now, what he did before, he doesn’t even know how to solve. So I was expecting, what I was taking to be easy for him to solve, to him, it’s not easy. So I have to let him know how to tackle it. So that is the step I had to find difficult there.

But God has already brought me to a level of understanding. Sometimes, if something comes to me like that, what I do, if I don’t have any solution to offer, I just keep quiet. I would say, na ji. So that’s what we do now. It’s part of the wisdom God has given to us.

I believe that God gives and God takes. Yes. In the world, we have been given so many opportunities to contribute to culture, to the well-being, the progress of his own community, and community that lies in Nigeria.

We will have about 75% or 90% to be indigenous. They know the people.

We have just lost former President Buhari. As a, retired General just like him, what do you have to say about him?

We believe that God gives and God takes. And all lives come from God, and all lives must return to Almighty Allah. The General has come to this world, he has seen the world, has been given so many opportunities to contribute his own quota, to the well-being and progress of his own community, and community at large, being Nigeria.

He was an icon even in the military, when we were there together, we respected him, he actually attracted a lot of respect from us.

I happened to serve under him when he was the GOC, in the Three Armoured Division as a junior officer under him and I admired his way of talking, giving orders and accomplishing tasks before him.

And the welfare of troops, you cannot beat him on that, he was very much concerned about the welfare of his people. We miss him, like other people have said we actually miss him because he was an icon, somebody full of integrity that many would actually like to emulate.

But God in His infinite mercy has taken him and we are praying Allah to grant him…(spoke Arabic) and to forgive all his shortcomings because he is a human being, in the areas that he has some shortcomings, nobody can run away from it.

And for the immediate family, for God to give them the fortitude to bear this very, very irreparable loss and to the whole nation as well.

Why traditional rulers should be involved in policy formation – Etsu Nupe

ICPC denying El-Rufai access to medical care, says Aide

One year after launch: Where are the forest guards?

Jilli, after the airstrike

How online pharmaceutical products’ adverts endanger lives

ICPC denying El-Rufai access to medical care, says Aide

Bande to chair UDUS maiden international media conference

How to cope with rainy season illnesses

Former UNILORIN Vice-Chancellor Ambali Dies at 68

Tags