Why we dragged ‘Facebook Boy’ to court – Gov. Lamido

In September 2010, I had an opportunity to interview you in Dutse and you made a prophetic statement that if Jonathan didn’t vacate the zoning section of the PDP constitution, before obtaining the presidential ticket, there would be crisis. Evidently, there is crisis. People are not happy. How happy are you that your prophecy is […]

In September 2010, I had an opportunity to interview you in Dutse and you made a prophetic statement that if Jonathan didn’t vacate the zoning section of the PDP constitution, before obtaining the presidential ticket, there would be crisis. Evidently, there is crisis. People are not happy. How happy are you that your prophecy is coming to pass?

I tried to look at the situation in the country and attempted to imagine what the future will be like, based on the situation as it was unfolding. Yes, I said it is true there is zoning and it is also a very serious moral burden on the PDP and on the president.  But, then, again, I also said no matter what, he will win the primaries if he contested. Now, let me remind you what I said there also, that because the convention is the highest authority of the party, it would mean that zoning has been formally abrogated if he won at the convention. I said so. And I said then that we had to be careful, to manage the entire victory by engaging in a campaign to harmonize and unite the party. We have to unite the PDP because I am not very sure today, in Nigeria, if there is a party which can claim to be capable of handling the country. Look at other parties. If they cannot manage ordinary primaries, how can they are tackle Nigeria’s problems? If they faced with the kind of crisis in the PDP, they would have evaporated long ago.

The issue is that you should have prevailed on him against asking for the ticket, knowing that it would create problems?

But you have to look at it this way.  This is an affair of the PDP but then it became a Nigerian debate. People were trying to ensure that the crisis escalated trying to impute motives,  and trying to take over the issue from the PDP itself.

But the PDP is not adhering to its own constitution, Sir.

In 1998, we were trying to form a very, very broad party, which would be all encompassing, which would have all Nigerian key players in the party. So that by the time it was formed, no military man will even dare to take over power.  What we‘ve been having were fragments of Nigeria. We needed to collapse all sorts of differences because we are dealing with the 21st century and the task was to put a very, very strong party that can form a government which can address issues that arose from June 12, the imperfections of the Abacha regime and the emergence of NADECO, etc. So, when you talk about the challenges facing the PDP, you have to look at the country’s political history. It is not about me or any individual prevailing on Jonathan from running. There are several issues to consider. Many things are interwoven there.  He is the chief executive, the commander-in-chief and the president. And, therefore, the PDP cannot simply turn and then withdraw or renounce him because that has its own implications for the party too and national security.

Did you influence the delegates from Jigawa state to vote for Jonathan?

You are saying I should wait for people to do whatever they want?  No. No. Tell me. No. Be honest. Be honest. How do you assemble Nigerians from all the local governments, various constituencies and say, fine, go there and do whatever you want? No. Tell me. When you have withdrawn as a shepherd, what would happen to the flock? Why can’t you have the courage and even the honour to do what you think is proper?  Now, in the Unity Party of Nigeria under Awolowo or the NCNC under Zik or in PRP under Aminu Kano (giggles), can you ask this question? You mean Awo would form a party and then ask the members to go and do whatever they want? No, tell me!. In the tradition that I know, once you believe in the party, once you submit to the party’s authority or the constitution, then it means the party has to guide you. So, I do not see anything which is so evil for you to begin to question me.

But why would you cause to be arrested a young man who criticized you on the Facebook?

No. No. No. We come from a tradition. We come from a culture. We have a religion. And there are some things which in our culture and tradition you don’t do. It is true, for instance, the Americans and Europeans, when their parents get very, very old, they are confined to what they call Old People’s Home. But will you take your father there?  No, you won’t because it is repugnant to your culture. And so in my tradition, in my religion, in my culture, there is no way a 25-year-old youth will post in his own Face book that “May the wrath of Allah Almighty fall on Sule Lamido’s own family”. That is what he wrote. You know, that is the thing in English, but  if you look at it in Hausa, it is even more, more damming and it is not in the tradition and culture of  the north for a youth to curse an elder. For him to go so personal is not in tune with Islamic culture.  Whether they call me: high-handed, whatever they call me, I am not going to allow our future generation to be turned into some robots aping some culture where a child can tell his father, “don’t be stupid, daddy. Or daddy, you are lying.”

But we understand there is political undercurrents in this matter?

His father is a sick person I have been supporting. His elder brother is my personal staff as the head of everything I eat in my house. So, there is this kind of family tie between us. And so, when I came to know about his sickness, I have been supporting him. Now, the father thought because he is trying to look for a kind of political relevance, I will condone and tolerate his son passing a personal insult in his own face book on me. So, all you people are saying in Trust, in the social media trying to make the issue a human rights issue or a religious issue cannot fly because it is based on falsehood and I am not bothered. I am even less bothered that his father is saying he refused to join or remain in the PDP, and that’s why we are taking on his son. Ask any Muslim, ask anybody whether it is something we can tolerate in Islam. They took him to a High Court in Jigawa state. We withdrew the case because in Islam, if you’re above 18, you are first taken to the Sharia court. And I think I will take him there. This is because in Islam, everybody is equal, whether high or low, powerful or powerless. I am doing so because you cannot promote Islam by resorting to falsehood and fabricating lies or creating a lie just because you want to get an advantage. You don’t do that in Islam.

These issues such as this Face book issue, the problem with the Islamic preacher and all that, are you not worried that they may be affecting how people perceive you?

There is no way any human being can intervene or intercede on behalf of God for  me. You understand? This is because God, who created me knows everything about me. It depends on your understanding of what is called fate in Islam. In my first four months in office, there had been all sorts of insults and abuses based on the perception that people had of me. They thought I was a very, very evil person; two,  that I hated emirs, three, that if I got in to political office in my life, I was going to be a tyrant and I would

be punishing people, I will be sacking civil servants. I will be abusing emirs. There is nothing I can do about the perception because it is their own perception.  The only thing  I can say is that  God  Who Has  been with me knows everything.  And I am not bothered  because,  as I said, in whatever I do in my life,  there is always a harmony between my heart and my tongue. There has been propaganda to destroy me based on people’s perception of me, but God has not allowed it. So, on these issues, I would still take you back to belief in my religion.

 

How does this situation affect your chances of returning as governor in April  2011?

The fear of the future should  not take away from me the belief and the faith  in myself. Do you understand?  It was God who got me there. And if it is the wish of Allah for me to come there, I will come back.. If it is not the wish of Allah, I will not come back, no matter what any human being does. So, it is not on account of what people think that they can do to malign me or destroy me. There is nothing like fear in me on account of this kind of blackmail, this kind of insult, trying to diminish and demean me. You know they say “hassada ga mai rabo taki”. So, the more they try to bury me, the more God keeps Sule Lamido. That is all.

Are you saying that you are on top of the situation?

(Cuts in): No. No. No. No! I am saying that, you know, nobody can simply ask God to pull me down on account of his own personal prejudices.  At my age, fear of whether I will win or loose an election is a non issue. Whatever I do in Jigawa state is informed by my past and not whether I am going to win or lose the next elections.

 

Are you worried that the ACN is making a lot of inroad into Jigawa state?

Who is their flag bearer? Who are their promoters in Jigawa State?

I know Saminu Turaki is one of them and Malam Nuhu Ribadu is their flagbearer.

Ribadu? Ribadu? Ribadu?  I see (laughs) I laugh.  I can’t imagine Ribadu working with the very people he put in detention on account of their financial performance in office. They are floating a political party for him to fly their own flag. What has Nigeria become?   Why are we being insulted? Why don’t we have this capacity to even reflect? Why can’t we begin to say what about yesterday?  Why don’t we say who said this and who is doing what? I mean really, are we so lost as a nation? It is like, in Nigeria, everything is possible, everything is feasible. Some other countries, there are some things we can’t do. For instance, there is no way a former American Vice-President will renounce his own party after serving his own full term of eight years and go into another political party and then return to that party and seek election for the presidency. There is no way a former cop,  a former policeman,  who had  been arresting  criminals,  arraigning them before the court of law on account of their misdemeanor in office; the same crooks, his own rogues, his own thieves will now form a political party  from the money they looted and  appoint him to be their  own flag-bearer.  You can’t do that elsewhere because there is no way that will not compromise him, Ribadu, no matter how clean he is.

But, technically they have not been convicted by any court of law.

Nigerians believe in taking refuge in technicalities. Go and elect them now. Vote for them. It is your right.  Feel free to vote for them. I have no problem. Let them go and win the elections and solve the problems.

There’s this issue of a preacher you sacked because he said some things against you during a prayer session?

Your newspaper, Daily Trust and Peoples Daily have been sensationalizing this issue. First, CPC members protested in Hadejia over their primary election and you reported it was the PDP protesting against the victory of President Jonathan at the primary election. How can we say it was the PDP when, actually, it was the CPC protesting?

What we reported was that PDP flags, billboards were pulled down by the CPC who protested?

But how would CPC problem become a protest against the PDP? I was called all sorts of names over this. Your paper in particular made it a point that Sule Lamido must be demonized, must be destroyed and in one day you published three articles on me. I called the journalists to the Government House, I called the emirs, called the security leaders in the state and asked them whether they were there in Hadejia. They said no, they were not there. I asked them if they said so in the story that it was based on hear say. They said no. you people are talking of Islam all the time, is it Islamic to write falsehood. How could they be in Dutse and write about what happened in Hadejia when they were not there?

They made telephone calls to officials in Hadejia?

It was not true. They claimed to have spoken to the Emir, but the Emir said it was not true. It is unislamic to create a story for political advantage. It is part of my worry.  And so, when you talk about democracy and all that, you forget that you are part of the problem because you want to manipulate the result of the election based on people’s emotion.  What I am saying is that why should CPC protest and pull down PDP billboards on account of their own reaction to their primaries? How do you bring the PDP into it?

On the issue of the Imam, the report consistently said the man was removed and that the principal of the school told him that he had been directed to stop him from preaching and all that… So, what exactly happened?

I have no idea what they were saying that I did.   I didn’t order any Imam to be removed.  I don’t even know the person. I don’t even know about that place; I’ve never gone there to worship. I don’t know who the Imam there is or was.  Somehow I was roped into it because it is part of the set agenda to destroy Sule Lamido.

What I take out of it is that it is possible that this young man preached against you and the principal of the college said, ‘look, I don’t want to run into trouble. So you, Imam, stop preaching’?

You see, the issue is that those peddling the stories are doing so presumably in defence of Islam.  What I am saying is that you don’t defend Islam with falsehood. You don’t do that.  You are destroying all the good values of Islam by indulging in falsehood because Islam forbids falsehood. And when the issue is not clear, try and verify.

With the crisis in the PDP, what are the prospects of your party in the 2011 elections?

What do you expect? PDP will win, you know that.  I mean, Nigerians cannot put their destiny in the hands of these small, small parties. Look at the ACN. Look at their primaries and convention. Look at the CPC. I mean…

But the hypothesis is that the PDP is going to be whittled down, even if it is going to win. If it won 70 percent before, it may win by 40 percent this time around?

Who is going to win? CPC? ACN?

Either of them could win?

Hmn, you must be joking. You must be joking. Nigerians are wiser than that because they know who they are.  No matter how much you may hate the PDP; no matter your opinion which is meant to poison people’s mind against the party and promote your political interest, whatever it is, you can’t simply wish away the PDP. The PDP is one huge political network spanning the whole country, in each village, in each household, in each local government, in each state… In other parties, only one person is their main investment. Beyond that, there’s nothing again. It is just like a doughnut.  It is so empty in the middle.

 

The PDP, as large and as powerful as it appears just seems to be fighting itself?

But, the bigger the head, the bigger the headache. That is what Abiola said. But the smaller parties have got a bigger headache than ours. I can’t believe this.   I can’t believe that the CPC and the ACN cannot even conduct ordinary primary elections. Look at the kind of crisis they are going through.